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Author Topic:   What is the Meaning of John 3:16?
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 106 of 156 (487820)
11-05-2008 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Phat
11-05-2008 7:54 AM


Re: Sometimes I wonder
I hope so. If not, why would anyone want the God of humans to be a chimera.

We are part of a natural system.

The God of ants is an ant.
The God of lions is a lion.
The God of man must be a man.

Why would we be the only ones in God's natural precedents that finds it's God in some alien culture?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Phat, posted 11-05-2008 7:54 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 553
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 107 of 156 (653042)
02-17-2012 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
03-14-2005 6:10 AM


IN THE LIGHT
-

And if you feel that you cant go on [ a ] just believe [ system ]

when you know that you cant go wrong,

in the Light youll find the road.

-

Parable of the Road The light is with you in a brief time. Walk on the road in the time you have the light so that darkness doesn't overtake you. He that walks in the obscurity, credits a light, believing [there is] a road but doesn't know where he's going. In the time you have the light, see the road in the light so that you may become first-fruit of light.

-

Brief time: Immediate time. . A sequence of time that is abbreviated.
Access in a brief or Immediate sequence.
believing there is a road Synonym: Not seeing the road.
B in Basic English ...one walking in the dark has no knowledge of where he is going.
Eclipsed quae creditur ...walks in darkness [in lack of belief] knows not where he goes.

-

Parable of the Trail Is there not a half day of daylight? A man may go about a half day without falling because he sees the trail in the light. But if a man goes about in the obscure, believing there is a trail, he may have a fall because the daylight does not depend on his will of believing.

-

Half day: . A mediated sequence of time that is a dividing of time.
believing there is a trail Synonym: Not seeing the trail.
B in Basic English ...he may have a fall because the light is not in him.
Eclipsed quae creditur ...because there is no light [of belief] in him.

-

How long will be the overcoming of these wonders?

These wonders will overcome until 1,335

Until a time: phrimmi 1,000

times: trminus 300

and a dividing Mediatus time: 3,5 .

-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 109 by Jon, posted 02-17-2012 4:21 PM celestialGyoud has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11812
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(2)
Message 108 of 156 (653044)
02-17-2012 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by celestialGyoud
02-17-2012 3:58 PM


Re: IN THE LIGHT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by celestialGyoud, posted 02-17-2012 3:58 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 156 (653046)
02-17-2012 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by celestialGyoud
02-17-2012 3:58 PM


Re: IN THE LIGHT
You dredge up a dead thread to post this filth? This drivel? This mindless, meaningless waste of words and server space?

What the hell for? Do you like the look of your posts? Are you enamored by your own words?

Or are you so utterly fucking screwed up in the head, that this shit actually makes sense to you?

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by celestialGyoud, posted 02-17-2012 3:58 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by celestialGyoud, posted 02-23-2012 12:37 PM Jon has not yet responded
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Phat
Member
Posts: 10026
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 110 of 156 (653053)
02-17-2012 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
03-16-2005 2:50 PM


Re: Just an aside on John
jar writes:

John itself is IMHO a complete redaction of Christianity as a whole. I personally have a very low opinion of John as inspired Christian Scripture.

What do you see as inspired scripture? In your belief, who inspires it?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 03-16-2005 2:50 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 111 of 156 (653056)
02-17-2012 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
03-14-2005 6:10 AM


Since this thread is so old, how many of the beliefs that you expressed seven years ago do you still hold?

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 03-14-2005 6:10 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


(1)
Message 112 of 156 (653057)
02-17-2012 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Jon
02-17-2012 5:38 PM


Zombie thread again???
Phat has become the king of the zombie threads

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Jon, posted 02-17-2012 5:38 PM Jon has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29603
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 113 of 156 (653061)
02-17-2012 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Phat
02-17-2012 5:14 PM


Re: Just an aside on John
Who is always just a matter of individual belief.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 02-17-2012 5:14 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 02-17-2012 9:59 PM jar has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 114 of 156 (653084)
02-17-2012 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by jar
02-17-2012 6:02 PM


Re: Who, Where and What?
jar writes:

Who is always just a matter of individual belief.

Well do you believe any are inspired by God i.e his holy spirit? If so who, where and what scripture ?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Someone wisely said something ;ike, "Before fooling with a fool, make sure the fool is a fool." :)


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 Message 113 by jar, posted 02-17-2012 6:02 PM jar has responded

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 115 of 156 (653085)
02-17-2012 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
02-17-2012 9:59 PM


Re: Who, Where and What?
Well do you believe any are inspired by God i.e his holy spirit? If so who, where and what scripture ?

That's a bit of a personal question isn't it?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 02-17-2012 9:59 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29603
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(2)
Message 116 of 156 (653086)
02-17-2012 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
02-17-2012 9:59 PM


Re: Who, Where and What?
I think Mark Twain was likely inspired by GOD when he wrote Mysterious Stranger, and Reverend Dodgson when he wrote Alice, and almost certainly Dawin when he wrote The Descent of Man.

I've definitely been inspired on occasion.

Inspiration is not dictation.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 156 (653099)
02-17-2012 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Theodoric
02-17-2012 10:04 PM


Re: Who, Where and What?
That's a bit of a personal question isn't it?

Faith and belief is a bit of a personal matter.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Theodoric, posted 02-17-2012 10:04 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10026
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 118 of 156 (653124)
02-18-2012 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
03-15-2005 8:22 AM


Resurrected Thread on John 3
Theodoric writes:

Phat has become the king of the zombie threads

Hey it was crazydiamond7 that brought this muck up from the deep!

Jon writes:

Since this thread is so old, how many of the beliefs that you expressed seven years ago do you still hold?

I believe in GOD, and am only now comprehending the scope of such a belief. For that reason, I "know" God less than I did 7 years ago, though ironically my faith may be stronger.

I resist thinking about things like redactors and limiting scripture to human wisdom...though quite honestly I cant support any further argument. If we dont hold scripture to be inerrant, belief becomes as philosophy. This does not bother me only because I believe that GOD is GOD regardless of the conclusions that humans arrive at.

jar writes:

Here all we're trying to do is figure out what John 3 (and some other day we'll try get to the possible relevance of John itself). We're starting with John 3:16 since I believe it is so totally and consistently misunderstood, misused and misapplied.

purpledawn writes:

The Book of John is the only NT author that uses the term only begotten son. IMO, our anti-Jewish author was trying to make Jesus different than the past kings who were called "son of God."

The author of John promoted the deity of Jesus, which went against what the Jews were allowed to believe.

IMO, making belief in Jesus as a deity an additional requirement was a way to keep most Jews out of the club.

In order to kmeep this thread from being labled a zombie one, lets examine John 3 in context.

jar writes:

ohn 3 is pretty short and we'll be returning again and again to it so here it is in its entirety.

1: There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4: Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6: That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7: Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8: The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9: Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10: Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12: If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
22: After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23: And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
24: For John was not yet cast into prison.
25: Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
26: And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
27: John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28: Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29: He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30: He must increase, but I must decrease.
31: He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32: And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33: He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34: For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35: The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I would like to ask all of you to look closely at John 3:15-18in relation to what comes before.

Are there any difference in construction between those four lines and what leads up to them?

It seems to me that John 3:1-14 is a pretty straight forward recitation of Jesus teachings. He's speaking to Nicodemus, one of the Pharisees. Nic had some questions and as Jesus often did, he answers Nic's questions with a series of examples. In the conversation Jeus is clearly talking about man's relationship with GOD.

The passage ends logically at the end of line 14.

Then the whole construction changes, the speaker changes, and we move from a discussion between Jesus and Nicodemus to an outside commentator.

Redactor or no redactor, my question is whether this writing was inspired, by whom was it inspired, and were "both" authors inspired by the same Spirit?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 03-15-2005 8:22 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by jar, posted 02-18-2012 11:25 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29603
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 119 of 156 (653126)
02-18-2012 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by Phat
02-18-2012 11:14 AM


Re: Resurrected Thread on John 3
Phat writes:

Redactor or no redactor, my question is whether this writing was inspired, by whom was it inspired, and were "both" authors inspired by the same Spirit?

HUH?

There is nothing that in anyway can point to any source of inspiration.

Why would the source of the "inspiration" matter? What does the writing say?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Phat, posted 02-18-2012 11:14 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Phat, posted 02-18-2012 11:36 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10026
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 120 of 156 (653129)
02-18-2012 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by jar
02-18-2012 11:25 AM


Re: Resurrected Thread on John 3
jar writes:

There is nothing that in anyway can point to any source of inspiration.

Why would the source of the "inspiration" matter? What does the writing say?

Jesus says to Nick, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." So we have a source of birth. A spiritual birth. Note that Jesus doesnt just say spirit as in "we've got spirit yes we do, we've got spirit how bout you?"

He does also mention that, like the wind, we can't really determine where the Spirit came from...so maybe you have a point.

Mark Twain was inspired through learning...he didn't just pray like a monk in order to receive inspiration...he went out and learned it through social observation and communication. Does this mean that in order to get inspiration I need to work at it?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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