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Author Topic:   "Evidence and Faith"
everwondered
Junior Member (Idle past 6183 days)
Posts: 5
From: stilwell, KS, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 128 of 303 (400122)
05-10-2007 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by PaulK
05-09-2007 12:08 PM


just a question, not an attack
this may not go along with what has been previously said (I don't have time to read everything, but has anyone ever wondered how the so-called "information" in Genesis I and II was collected and verified? As far as I know, no-where does the Bible say who was told of the creation of the universe, or how, when, or over what period f time?

..."the story the oversoul tells me fits all the facts that I see. Your story, in which I'm endlessly deceived, can also explain all those facts. I have no way of knowing that your story is not true-but you have no way of knowing that my story isn't true. So I will choose the one that I love. I will choose the one that, if it's true, makes this reality one worth living in. I'll act as if the life I hope for is real life, and the life that disgusts me-your life, your view of life-is the lie."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by PaulK, posted 05-09-2007 12:08 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by PaulK, posted 05-10-2007 2:38 PM everwondered has replied

everwondered
Junior Member (Idle past 6183 days)
Posts: 5
From: stilwell, KS, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 130 of 303 (400124)
05-10-2007 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by jar
05-10-2007 1:06 PM


Re: A word of Encouragement.
how can Peter not understand the Gospel when they weren't written during Jesus' time on Earth and he wrote one himself? Does that mean that we should renounce his Gospel in the Church and carefully scrutinize evrything credited to him for fear of our being mislead or decieved? I thought you became a Pope by accepting and loving God, not by misunderstanding him and his message... I understand how there is the spoken Gospel and the written Gospel, but what we say and write is not always exactly what we mean, and words written thousands of years ago are even harder to proofread due to the absence of an author who knows and understands what they wrote. But wait, Peter didn't understand the Gospel, did he?

..."the story the oversoul tells me fits all the facts that I see. Your story, in which I'm endlessly deceived, can also explain all those facts. I have no way of knowing that your story is not true-but you have no way of knowing that my story isn't true. So I will choose the one that I love. I will choose the one that, if it's true, makes this reality one worth living in. I'll act as if the life I hope for is real life, and the life that disgusts me-your life, your view of life-is the lie."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by jar, posted 05-10-2007 1:06 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by jar, posted 05-10-2007 3:03 PM everwondered has replied

everwondered
Junior Member (Idle past 6183 days)
Posts: 5
From: stilwell, KS, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 131 of 303 (400125)
05-10-2007 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by PaulK
05-10-2007 2:38 PM


Re: just a question, not an attack
so how can we be sure that they are true?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by PaulK, posted 05-10-2007 2:38 PM PaulK has not replied

everwondered
Junior Member (Idle past 6183 days)
Posts: 5
From: stilwell, KS, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 133 of 303 (400129)
05-10-2007 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by jar
05-10-2007 3:03 PM


Re: A word of Encouragement.
I agree completely...nice comment about the Pope...and it is unfortunate that more people don't understand the massage, I mean, it's right there, spelled out, but people still don't understand. Very good points, too, about Peter and such. And we should scrutinize everything...............but what if we haven't scrutinized enough, could we be wrong?

..."the story the oversoul tells me fits all the facts that I see. Your story, in which I'm endlessly deceived, can also explain all those facts. I have no way of knowing that your story is not true-but you have no way of knowing that my story isn't true. So I will choose the one that I love. I will choose the one that, if it's true, makes this reality one worth living in. I'll act as if the life I hope for is real life, and the life that disgusts me-your life, your view of life-is the lie."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by jar, posted 05-10-2007 3:03 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 05-10-2007 3:21 PM everwondered has replied

everwondered
Junior Member (Idle past 6183 days)
Posts: 5
From: stilwell, KS, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 164 of 303 (400745)
05-16-2007 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by jar
05-10-2007 3:21 PM


Re: A word of Encouragement.
But what if someone questions everything to the point where they no longer kept their faith, but rather renounced it due to the vast amount of unkowns and uncertainties in the world's religions (and yes, every single religion in the world has a large amount of unknowns)? I saw a shirt once that said "not seeing is believing." I, personally, am not a particularly religious person, and you may not appreciate that or like me and my ideas and I respect that, but when someone believes in something that they don't even know exists, how can they be sure that what they believe to be true is really the truth? A reply might look like: "But that's the point of it being called 'faith,' you don't know if you're right or wrong or if your beliefs are correct, you don't know if there is a God or some other form of being on a higher plane than ourselves, and the belief that your beliefs are correct is enough justification for you to believe your beliefs to be the truth." If this is your response, then you're about halway there with my point.
My point is this:
Scientific standpoint:
If you cannot mathematically or scientifically prove that something exists, then it must not exist. Ockham's Razor (also Occam) states that "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity," or more commonly as "all things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one." In other words, when multiple rival/diverse theories are similar in other respects, the idea suggests selecting the theory composed of the fewest assumptions, postulates and hypothetical entities (a God of any kind).
So, using the same school of thought we arrive at the conclusion that God must not exist.
But no-one can be sure about anything anymore because of all the different ideas and belief systems in our world.
So.................who, or what, do we believe ad why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 05-10-2007 3:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 05-16-2007 2:48 PM everwondered has not replied

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