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Author Topic:   The power of prayer: in action
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 304 (154182)
10-29-2004 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 3:24 PM


Does and doesn't is present tense thinking.
You fail to look at what he has done, doing, and going to do.
Has done: Told you where to pray, allowed many many people to die in Africa.
Doing, going to do: Who knows? But while he's been getting around to it, millions of people have died.
Maybe they are for him.
And that's just a lovely abstract thought. Maybe we can put it on a sign, and hang it over a mass grave or two.
Go ahead, solve E=MC^2 and 2+2 in the same amount of time.
Can't. Of course, I'm not omnipotent and omniscient. God is, apparently.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 3:24 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 3:49 PM Dan Carroll has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 242 of 304 (154184)
10-29-2004 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by purpledawn
10-29-2004 1:54 PM


Re: The Process
Did you follow a process to be saved?
Not really. I saw my daughter born 14 years ago, and I decided it was too amazing for all this to be chance. There is some truth to evolution, but I don't think we have the whole picture yet.
How do you describe a lifeform going from non-inteeligence to intelligence. Just when does a tree start thinking for itself?
I do not want to get into a EVO debate here, I have heard it all already, and I continue to study it in my free time. But these are the things that cause me to seek God.
I read the bible on and off during those 13 years, even a few bible studies. Went to about 4 different churches. Usually after 2 or 3 visits, I would realize that it just wasn't for me. I did not feel God.
Then God called me to a certain church, and it was there that I experienced the Holy Spirit. Even though I had accepted Christ in public several years before, I really wasn't folowing his ways. I prfessed to be a Christian, but I wasn't fooling anybody or myself. I would admit that openly though.
Once I felt the Holy Spirit was felt, it all made sense, and God spoke to me in my heart and thoughts. The air was fresher, the trees were greener, the whole world looked like a different place, and I to the world too I guess judging by peoples reactions to my newfound look.
It was like God came up behind me, put his hand on my shoulder and said, yes I'm here, now its up to you. I mean I am still the same person inside, but now I know God. I get treated differently because I am a Christian though. It seems all you have to do is mention it, and wham, you get different treatment. Just like the bible says. Even though I did not know the whole bible, I could read it, and totally identify with everything that was being said, I already had it in my heart.
So if I'm nuts, they were nuts too, and everyone for the last 2000 years have fallen pray to an evil trick started by Jesus.
You know what, and this is for you, even if it was fake, which I do not feel it is, it is such an awesome feeling, and so peaceful, so full of Love, so perfect, that I do not want to feel any other way.
This is a wierd way of putting it, but I'm trying to relate it to those who do not know what it feels like. Being close to God does not mean your life gets worse, it should get better. Unless you choose to sacrifice yourself for the Lord and put yourself through certain things.
I find the thought of there being no God now, so lonely and cold. The thought that we are all here by chance, and we have no real meaning or purpose for being here, it doesn't matter if we die or live, it wouldn't make a shread of difference to the Universe, is a dry way to base your life. Where does the insiration come from. What are we trying to prove, and to who? If we have no spirit, then why do we feel sad, why do we get inspired, why do we love (not just our spouses), why do we cry, why would Carl Sagan be afarid of dying and want to live, why want to live if you have no spirit? Does a tree care if it lives or not?
Ecclesiastes 1
Everything Is Meaningless
1 The words of the Teacher, [1] son of David, king in Jerusalem:
2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!"
says the Teacher.
"Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless."
3 What does man gain from all his labor
at which he toils under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 There is no remembrance of men of old,
and even those who are yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow.
Why why why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by purpledawn, posted 10-29-2004 1:54 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by purpledawn, posted 10-29-2004 7:58 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 243 of 304 (154185)
10-29-2004 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Dan Carroll
10-29-2004 3:42 PM


So thats it, there's no God because of all that?
Is that your reasoning?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-29-2004 3:42 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-29-2004 3:58 PM riVeRraT has replied

Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 304 (154191)
10-29-2004 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 3:49 PM


So thats it, there's no God because of all that?
No. Where did I ever say that this was my reasoning that there's no God?
I think there's no God because there's nothing to suggest the existence of one, so I give the idea no more credence than I would the aforementioned inch-tall baboons.
Everything I've been talking about here is why I think that if God does exist, and has been personally seeing to where you pray, then his priorities are out of whack.
I've said that several times, just fyi.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 3:49 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by riVeRraT, posted 10-30-2004 8:41 PM Dan Carroll has replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3479 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 245 of 304 (154259)
10-29-2004 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 3:46 PM


Re: The Process
quote:
The air was fresher, the trees were greener, the whole world looked like a different place, and I to the world too I guess judging by peoples reactions to my newfound look.
I understand exactly what you are talking about. Been there done that and it is wonderful.
quote:
You know what, and this is for you, even if it was fake, which I do not feel it is, it is such an awesome feeling, and so peaceful, so full of Love, so perfect, that I do not want to feel any other way.
It wasn't fake.
Many people have ruined their spiritual journey because they are always trying to relive that initial feeling. They want that rush. Maintain the peace, the thrill will come and go. Just like a marriage.
Take Care
The journey continues.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 3:46 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by riVeRraT, posted 10-30-2004 8:28 PM purpledawn has replied
 Message 283 by nator, posted 11-01-2004 9:40 AM purpledawn has replied
 Message 284 by nator, posted 11-01-2004 9:40 AM purpledawn has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5930 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 246 of 304 (154298)
10-29-2004 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 10:22 AM


riVeRrat
I really hate when smart people such as yourself, who know the bible, and what Jesus was about start using Hitler for a comparison in a religious arguement.
Hold on a moment son, leadership is not a matter of religious concern as I have already said it is something given to you by others not something gained. I am sorry if Hitler was too harsh a comparison however it works just as well if I were to compare you to,say,Tony Robbins.The point is that leadership is a matter not of divine intervention but of a personal choice on your part to change your own outlook and share that outlook with people looking for what you have to offer
I do apologize for the inappropriate analogy with a despicable character.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 10:22 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by riVeRraT, posted 10-30-2004 12:01 PM sidelined has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 247 of 304 (154406)
10-30-2004 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by sidelined
10-29-2004 10:18 PM


There have been many times in my life where I wanted to be a leader. However it wasn't granted to me. God knew when the time was right. It seems now that I do everything in his name, it all falls into place perfectly.
I really haven't changed that much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by sidelined, posted 10-29-2004 10:18 PM sidelined has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 248 of 304 (154425)
10-30-2004 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 11:31 AM


Riverrat writes:
You need God, for yourself, its what you deserve. It would be nice for you if you found him.
" Whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love to death " Proverbs
I am guessing that before you knew God - you had drugs etc...and worldly desires - as you would love "death" beforehand - and that which kills the body. Smoking, drinking, drugs. All these addictive things can be healed by God, by those who seek him. But all who actively pursue these things - pursue quick fixes for their weak flesh. They have no control over their own selves. This weakness of the flesh is the disgusting corruption of the enemy - who has succesfully stunk out the planet. We are all the scum on God's earth.( edited out offensive part.)
All these corruptions can be stopped - - they are contaminated by satan - chief of the contaminants.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 10-30-2004 12:50 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 11:31 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by CK, posted 10-30-2004 1:31 PM mike the wiz has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4149 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 249 of 304 (154429)
10-30-2004 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by mike the wiz
10-30-2004 1:10 PM


quote:
We are all the scum on God's earth. Even animals aren't as filthy. Even everyone disgusts me - and me aswell.
Wow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by mike the wiz, posted 10-30-2004 1:10 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by mike the wiz, posted 10-30-2004 1:44 PM CK has replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 250 of 304 (154431)
10-30-2004 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by CK
10-30-2004 1:31 PM


Well, that is - the sinful wicked part of them - and me also.
I guess I hate evil - and love God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by CK, posted 10-30-2004 1:31 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by CK, posted 10-30-2004 1:50 PM mike the wiz has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4149 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 251 of 304 (154435)
10-30-2004 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by mike the wiz
10-30-2004 1:44 PM


Mike - it must be very difficult for you in the U.K. now that the christian religion has assumed it's correct place.
For our american chums: By that I mean religion is a private thing and that any public figure who calls on Jesus/God for support would be sectioned/considered a nutcase.
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-30-2004 12:52 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by mike the wiz, posted 10-30-2004 1:44 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by mike the wiz, posted 10-30-2004 1:53 PM CK has replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 252 of 304 (154436)
10-30-2004 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by CK
10-30-2004 1:50 PM


I've edited out the offensive part. Sorry about that.
Anyway - what do you think of the yob culture in the UK?
Do you think they would laugh at me if I preached to them on the street corner? Or would I get my head kicked in?.....I suggest you look at the moral decline BECAUSE of the lack of "following God."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by CK, posted 10-30-2004 1:50 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by CK, posted 10-30-2004 1:57 PM mike the wiz has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4149 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 253 of 304 (154439)
10-30-2004 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by mike the wiz
10-30-2004 1:53 PM


it's actually more to do with some of the odd social-cultural things that keep us out of step with the rest of europe (such as our strange attitude to drink and the like) and systemtic economic factors that have created little hope for large elements of the population.
I don't see any corrolation between the fall of the christian godhead and the rise of yob culture. Otherwise I could ask if there is a connection between being a sex offender and a priest/vicar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by mike the wiz, posted 10-30-2004 1:53 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by mike the wiz, posted 10-30-2004 2:00 PM CK has replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 254 of 304 (154440)
10-30-2004 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by CK
10-30-2004 1:57 PM


Erm...Charles - I asked if I'd get my head kicked in. You didn't answer - because you KNOW I would either be beaten up or killed. SO do you think these yobs are christian? Please answer the question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by CK, posted 10-30-2004 1:57 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by CK, posted 10-30-2004 2:04 PM mike the wiz has not replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4149 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 255 of 304 (154442)
10-30-2004 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by mike the wiz
10-30-2004 2:00 PM


Well they may shout and throw things - but you make it sound like any interaction with young people (which is who most of this Yob Culture rhectoric seems to be aimed at) ends with death.
If you wander around any city centre - there are people preaching "the word" - people politely take no notice. That's about it.
If what you said was true - all the Jevos would be murdered when they knocked on people's doors to preach.
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-30-2004 01:06 PM
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 10-30-2004 01:07 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by mike the wiz, posted 10-30-2004 2:00 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by riVeRraT, posted 10-30-2004 8:24 PM CK has not replied

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