What is a True Christian?

Thanks Ned! Absolutely! And there is the key! If we meet the definition of christian then I suppose we qualify. Now this has zero, zilch, zip all to do with being a fundamentalist or evolutionist. As far as I am concerned, you can be a fundamentally half-ape believer or a preacher touting literalist yet they are both irrelevant to the definition. I will outline the definition from the dictionary to help us see what counts:- Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
- Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
- Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
- Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
- Showing a loving concern for others; humane.Notice how the last one kinda spoils it for murderers. You see, this is why I sometimes say that atheists are infact more christian than they realize.Christ himself was heartily against hypocrites, and said many would claim to know him but he will say "I never knew you". Well, first I suggest we meet the definition, but only Christ can decide. That may seem inconvenient but the scripture is clear, if you pretend to be something you're not then you're simply not it.If you are still dis-satisfied, there is ofcourse basic logic to back this up. For example, if a "footballer" is one who "plays football" and there is a man claiming to be a footballer, yet he has only ever played tennis, then he is simply not a footballer like he claims. Quite simply - they are wrong. That's about as well thought out as the other silly statement, "evolution is religion". The fact is fundamentalists/creationism has no say on who is christian. It's just tough cheese on a fundie if they want it to be otherwise.

Great post!

I agree lying/killing both come from the source of bad or evil. But I personally (opinion) think killing is the worst crime and is not on the same level as lying. I could lie about doing a good thing, "No, I didn't give to the poor I tell you!" Yet that would just be a private/humble good person. Also, killing isn't black and white either, BUT if Hitler killed millions of Jews then obviously we can discern that he differs from the average Joe/christian, even atheist. I think we could only define him as a homicidal nutcase, if we were judging him, which we are not.

I would say, one who tries his very best to never sin again. Like Willowtree said, we all fall short of Christ's example.It seems that one can proclaim to be a christian at most. I myself consider myself a christian, but Christ might not consider me one.But if I didn't have the fruit of the spirit - I wouldn't be able to fulfill the law. A lot of people don't even know what the fruit of the spirit is, and haven't even read the NT, yet there are a lot of opinions being thrown around in this topic. Now if I have this fruit, then surely I can do no murder. If anyone understands me - let them reply. It is also said "You are not far from the Kingdom of God" - when Christ percieved a discresion. I feel he would have said something similar to you. Let us not forget the seperating of the sheep from the goat, can anyone tell me who qualifies as a sheep? Can anyone tell me who qualifies as a goat?

Well, do you consider yourself christian now? Six times - I guess that means you doubted atleast five times. I talk of the fruit of the spirit. In Galatians is says the fruit of the spirit fulfills the law. Christ said that love fulfills the law - I talk of that fruit he spoke of.You see, I am not going to tell you that you have recieved the Holy Spirit. I would advise you reading and understanding those things in the NT though. I did not mention you. What I did was make a statement. I said "surely IF I have this fruit I can do no murder". In other words, if I have that thing Christ said, then surely I couldn't do murder. I hope you enjoyed exalting yourself. As for soldiers in Iraq, I have nothing to say about this. I am too ignorant of the spirit in the air, and the plans of the most high. May I refrain from judgement?

I've noticed you mention this "confirmation bias" a lot. In an attempt to handwave our answered prayers away into your nice comforting pigeon hole. But we would call this "belief". It's very obvious to a doubter, that this is "confirmation bias". I have had "doubt" creep up on me and try to convince me that faith and belief isn't it. But in the end, this will always come down to two simple things; those who have belief, and those who don't.

Random chance doesn't cater for specific requests. What would chance help for anyway though? Aren't the chances of abiogenesis impossible? What are the chances of us existing? I guess the odds are against these things, yet you claim we still came about in this way. So how accurate or useful is chance? If I ask for a specific request and it happens, what are the chances of that? I guess the odds might be 50/50. But chance would be a fine thing, yet according to chance we don't exist, so how reliable is random chance anyway? But I am not fooling myself. I cannot have had these answered prayers in this way. Even chance is not catering for the outcomes. How can I be fooling myself when I have the truth?Random chance cannot point itself into one area and focus on it. It's like me winning the lottery, if I win it one week then I guess it is random chance, but what if I win it every week for three years, would you still think of it as chance? Can random chance focus like this? And even prayers that seemingly go unanswered - you cannot know if the answer is not according to God's will. It comes down to belief again. Now who tells us it comes down to belief?

Yes, I would have to concede that I don't really use the Torah for moral guidance. Like you say, well, I mainly concentrate on the NT and Christ's teachings. I don't disregard the OT, but some things are uselss to me. For example, I don't really read, nor am interested in the wars with Israel etc... Those stories bore me. Genesis is a great book though, the stories of Abraham, Izaac and Jacob are a great read, even adventurous at times. But to be honest, if there were no NT I wouldn't even be a believer. According to the bible, Gentiles only became significant with Christ's entry. So I suppose I could say the previous Jewish history is not as significant as it would be to to say, a Messianic Jew.PS. I do enjoy the movie The ten Commandments though.

Because I say so you naughty girly.
I suppose that you might not have a reason to believe me yet not them. However, I can show that sleep paralysis is infact probably repsonsible for their abductions, yet what can you show as responsible for my prayers, when probabilities don't account for their happening? I think Handdawg asked for a girlfriend and recieved one the next day. Can't remember if it was in this topic though. It's hard to give specific examples. I have to be honest with you though, I doubt my own examples are very impressive and so..this un-eventful existence is not to be used to bore you with. I suppose one cannot ever satisfy you Schraff, unless they give you a list of specific events. You are one who needs proof like Thomas. Not that that's the wrong way of doing things, but to be honest, it doesn't help when Christ says believe and you will recieve. I don't know. Care to enlighten me?^{Edited out numerous typing errors,}This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-21-2004 04:33 PM

Excellent. You have indeed spoken a perfect truth! It always will come down to belief or unbelief. Wow. I agree, as even in scripture Christ said that his apostles would be killed, even to their faces. These truths will dissatisfy the unbeliever, but increase our belief in Christ. And why? Because who but the truth would say such things?As for your testimony, it is amazing. I am so glad God has kept his word for you. Though my story involves no physical healings, it is very much similar to your own, in that - God convinces us if we believe. Yet have you noticed he will leave room for doubts to still exist . I tell you, this is no accident my friend, as we already know that the key is not the proof, but the belief.