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Author | Topic: Prayer, faith and healing | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
quote: lemme spell it out for you..... F R E E W I L L
quote: Charles Mansion got his idea to kill from a beatles song.THAT MUST MEAN THE BEATLES ARE TRYING TO KILL PEOPLE!!!!!!!
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DC85 Member (Idle past 379 days) Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
lemme spell it out for you..... have a look at the mother topic. I ask if God doesn't have control over the world why do you pray? Why is it when something good happens God did it. But when something bad happens he couldn't stop it?
F R E E W I L L
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Maneuver Inactive Member |
Personally I think Freewill and religion contradict each other. Religion requires you to give up some of your decision making ability to be a part of the organization. (Freewill not to have a open mind for other religions than your own) If you accpet freewill in this case why cant you accpet someones freewill not to believe in a religion without going to hell?
"Charles Mansion got his idea to kill from a beatles song.THAT MUST MEAN THE BEATLES ARE TRYING TO KILL PEOPLE!!!!!!!" So your comparing christans to Charles Mansion? Charles Mansion wanted to KILL people. I never said that the bible told the bishop to kill the boy. But the people in boy's story and those like them are so misguided by religion that in their attempt to help people they harm them instead. [This message has been edited by Maneuver, 09-30-2003]
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
quote: You are asking me like I created hell. God gave us free will to believe whatever we wanted but if we do not accept the truth we go to hell. Everyone will recieve a chance to hear about God, if you refuse to accept it you end in hell. God gave us a chance at salvation..... JESUS. You have free will to except or deny this but it all comes down to the truth. You will be judged not by me but by God in the end. If you want to deny it you can! God gives us that right but he is not contradicting himself because he has warned us of these things!If you do not believe then you are refusing to believe. If you take no heed to the warning you shall perish in hell. So what I am trying to say is that yes God did give us a free will to either doom ourselves or to "save" ourselves. It is still free will either way you look at it. I am sorry if I am coming off in a wrong way towards anyone. Judgemental,ignorant, whatever..... So be it. These are my beliefs (set down by God!) that I use my free will to believe in. As for which religion is the right one, this is the set of beliefs God has given us. Take it or leave it. The other religions are man made. Christianity is God made. It does not even have to fall under the category of religion necessarilly, it is THE belief. Take it or leave it. -chris
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
plz respond to my post, post 49 at DC's new topic:
"Which religion is the "right" one?" [This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-30-2003]
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Rei Member (Idle past 7012 days) Posts: 1546 From: Iowa City, IA Joined: |
Everone gets a chance to hear the message of Christ? Last I checked, there weren't too many people stating the message of Christ deep in the African Congo until a few hundred years ago. There have been tribes in remote parts in the world which haven't been discovered until this century. The New World wasn't discovered by the Western World, apart from Lief the Lucky's brief expedition to Vinland, until Columbus. Most places in the world never even see a missionary. Many people die young. Some people have learning difficulties. Some have extreme learning difficulties. Some to the point where they can hardly comprehend a thing.
Your take? ------------------"Illuminant light, illuminate me."
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Zhimbo Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
That's one of the major reasons I started doubting Christianity; my church often had Missionaries come by to talk about their work, and over and over they talked about how many people haven't heard "the Word" and they need money to save these souls...
And I thought - that's awfully unfair! People don't hear about Jesus, but they go to hell if they don't accept him as their Savior? Just a comment; if someone wants to discuss this let's move it.
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John Inactive Member |
I used to hear something similar-- that you won't go to hell unless you've heard of Jesus and rejected him. What puzzled me was that if you haven't heard of Jesus then either you go to heaven ( ie. not-hell ) or you simply vanish having never had a chance at eternal life in paradise. This is in the first case unfair to those Christians who trouble themselves with the faith during this life and in the second case is unfair to those who simply never had a chance.
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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
quote: When you are brought into this earth you see the world around you and you know there muist have been a creator. I forget which verse, but it says ALL will see the glory of God. I firmly believe that.
quote: The people who die young, I believe are graced by God for they did not have a chance to live such as babies.
quote: Can you give examples of people with such learning disabilities they can't comprehend a thing, or is this just another baseless assertion?
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
quote: That's fine with me.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: It is a big jump from 'wow! maybe there is a creator' to the Christian concept of that creator. Simply figuring there must be a god of some kind doesn't count. You have to believe in Jesus, not just some vague god.
quote: Why do you believe that? We are all born in sin, yes? There are no innocents, only the saved.
quote: I realize you are 14, but are you truly sheltered enough that you don't realize how badly brains can go wrong? Google: profound mental handicap ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com {Fixed a quote box - AM} [This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 10-01-2003]
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: quote: The History Channel is one of your sources? Cable TV is about entertainment and the History Channel is not an exception. They are not a good source of real historical scholarship.
quote: There is archaelogical evidence of Mayan, Roman, Egyptian, Aztec, and various Pagan religions, too. So what? As far as the dead seas scrolls, they are simply very old translations of certain parts of the Bible. They are useful from a greater historical context but they don't "prove" or verify anything other than that parts of the Bible have been around for a very long time.
quote: I couldn't find any mention of this book at Archaeology - Archaeology Magazine. I did find a great many Christian apologetics sites which mentioned it, however. Can you produce any mainstream Archeological reviews of this book, and can you please provide some references to some peer-reviewed papers which support these assertions?
quote: The website you gave me did not provide any non-religious references.
quote: Everone IS biased. That's why the scientific method and peer review is so important. Science, done well, eliminates a great deal of personal, individual bias. The scientific method itself does this well, and peer review makes sure others are constantly dissecting and examining your claims. So, relatively unbiased information is not all that scarce. Scientific papers that survive peer review are usually quite good in this regard. If they weren't then the technologies, medical practices and procedures, and most of all, predictions of the natural world wouldn't work or happen. I'll repeat for emphasis... How can science be biased if predictions based upon past scientific work actually happen?
quote: The problem with what they have to say is that they do not attempt to use real scientific methodology nor real peer-review. If you are a Creationist, you have already agreed to give up science and rational inquiry in favor of preconceived religious dogma. No Creation 'scientist' comes to any conclusion other than the one he or she has agreed to ahead of time, right? That's not science, and wearing such blinders is not likely to reach the truth about the physical world.
quote: Telling people that you are right and they are wrong when all you have is faith is quite arrogant, yes. [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 10-01-2003]
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
I'm sick of reading your negative GARBAGE. I don't care what you think. First off watch the history channel program. They show INTELLIGENT views of archeologists, scholars, EVERYTHING. Maybe I'm wrong because it's on cable.
quote:You ask me for evidence I provide then you COMPLAIN? What is that????????????????????????????????? quote: What do you have against CHRISTIANS?
quote: Why don't you read the book for yourself???????? Go to a LIBRARY.
quote: It's fun restating what I said huh? I NEVER SAID SCIENCE IS BIASED When I have time I might go into depth on this. [This message has been edited by messenjaH, 10-01-2003] [This message has been edited by messenjaH, 10-01-2003] [This message has been edited by messenjaH, 10-01-2003]
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DC85 Member (Idle past 379 days) Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
I am sorry. and I know its frustrating. However isn't anything getting you to possibly think perhaps your religion isn't the right one? Perhaps it isn't all true? I mean if questions can't be answered what good is your religion?(see my reply to you in the other topic)
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: "Negative garbage"? What is negative about wanting logical, scholarly evidence from you to support what you claim? It is not negative, and it is not garbage. It is intellectually vigorous critical analysis. I am sorry if you find such questions and requests frustrating. the truth is, all you have to say is "I know there's no real support for a lot of the stuff in the Bible, but I believe it anyway." We have left science and empiricism altogether, then, and at this point I have no argument with you. It is only when you say, "The bible IS true, see, there's all this scientific evidence," that I can minutely examine what you say and be as demanding and picky about the science as I would for any other empirical claim.
quote: I'm sure the History Channel program is not completely terrible, but why bother with pop culture entertainment when there is actual unedited scholarship to be read. The Reader's Digest version of anything is not likely to cover much detail.
quote: I am asking you for evidence of a certain quality. You said that archeological evidence for things that happened in the Bible, places, people, etc., exists, amd that's a reason you believe in the Bible. I pointed out that lots of Archaelogical evidence for many other people, places and events exists for many opther religions also. When I said "So what", I meant to point out that it is not particularly impressive that the Bible had this supporting evidence because lots of other religions have evidence, too.
quote: Nothing at all. I do have issues with any religious group that tries to pass their religion off as science, however.
quote: Because YOU provided it as evidence for your assertions, so YOU can do the leg work on the research. If it is such a great Archaeology book, then why can't I find it mentioned at all at Archaeology - Archaeology Magazine?
quote: Funny, it seemed to me that when you said, in defense of your posting of all christian websites, that EVERYONE is biased, which I took to mean that you thought that Christian and Scientific 'evidence' was equally biased. Maybe you could explain what you meant?
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