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Author | Topic: What Does the Second Coming Entail? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
That's a you and Phat gig. I'll leave him to it.
(And you can drop the snotty attitude, too. It doesn't impress me.) Sorry Ringo, I wasn't intending to be insulting or snotty. You don't believe the Bible is the word of God - from previous discussion with you. And I have difficulty imagining what the point of discussing anything to do with it is, if it is not presumed to be so (if even for the sake of argument) No offence intended. Its a genuine problem I have difficulty getting my head around
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Brian Member (Idle past 4986 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
I don't get the logic Brian Everyone is a sinner, so we should all be wiped out. The question would be, why does God only wipe out only some sinners and not all of them? Brian.
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iano Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
We will all be wiped out. We all die don't we?
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Brian Member (Idle past 4986 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
But you said that God does the wiping out didnt you?
'Wiping out' is not something that I associate with a natural death.
We all die don't we? Is that a physical or spiritual death Brian.
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iano Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
'Wiping out' is not something that I associate with a natural death. Your perogative. "Natural death" is a human construct.
Is that a physical or spiritual death Physical We are all born spiritually dead. You can't kill something twice that I know of.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: You don't believe the Bible is the word of God - from previous discussion with you. I don't believe the word of iano is the word of God.
I have difficulty imagining what the point of discussing anything to do with it is, if it is not presumed to be so.... That would apply to almost everybody else around here as well as to me, wouldn't it? (I think you're just scared of ol' Ringo. ) Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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iano Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
I don't believe the word of iano is the word of God And rightly so. But neither do you believe the Bible is the word of God.
That would apply to almost everybody else around here as well as to me, wouldn't it? Actually not. Most people here realise that if you want to talk about what the Bible says then you must presume (for the sake of argument) that it is the word of God. Like, you cannot use the Bible as a weapon against his attributes if you don't believe ( for the sake of argument) that what it says describes his attributes. Now can you?
I think you're just scared of ol' Ringo I find you evasive and not very pleasant to discuss with for the reason given. You dodge and weave around the issue of the Bible being the word of God. One minute you quote from it as if what it says is true and the next moment you deny it is the word of God. You want it both ways. But you cannot have it both ways - in my view.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
iano writes: You dodge and weave around the issue of the Bible being the word of God. I'm trying to get you to discuss the issue - at least in the context of this topic. Who's dodging and weaving? Never mind whether or not the Bible is the word-for-word of God, dictated in His own handwriting. People who can discuss it intelligently aren't that plentiful and people who are willing are even less so. Stop running away. Either debate or get off the pot. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Legend Member (Idle past 5033 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
iano writes: As far as Hitler was concerned he was doing good. As far as we're concerned he was doing bad. Whose right? iano also writes: We have nothing however, to suppose evil in God causing his actions to be motivated by evil. you're still not getting (dodging) it. we have nothing to suppose evil in Hitler causing the Holocaust. The only reason we brand Hitler as evil is because of what he did. For all we know his motivation might have been ultimately good. We still brand him evil though because of his actions.
iano writes:
how about our godly attribute to tell good from evil ? In order to claim 'we' are you need to have a foundation on which to stand. What is it? "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." (GENESIS 3:22) so, we can tell good from evil like God does, we call God's actions evil , God himself calls his actions evil. The only person / divine entity who doesn't think God does evil is .........[drumroll]........iano, congratulations, you've won the 'only true Christian' award. "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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CK Member (Idle past 4155 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
legend writes: congratulations, you've won the 'only true Christian' award. Oh I'm so confused now! I thought people who were true christians were those who believed in a literal view of the bible, Iano clearly doesn't believe in a literal reading of the text and therefore is not a true christian! However many of us atheists DO believe in (strange as it sounds) taking the christian god at his word and therefore we must be true untrue true christians!
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Legend Member (Idle past 5033 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: |
CK writes: However many of us atheists DO believe in (strange as it sounds) taking the christian god at his word and therefore we must be true untrue true christians! LOL! too right! maybe it should be called 'the untrue Christian paradox' or something. "In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Whatever gave you the impression that he wants to be followed? i dunno. something about setting all kinds of rules and laws, and that whole bit about faith and salvation. somewhere in there.
How would you know either way if God can lie to you. AH! tough question, isn't it?
You have faith? What the heck is faith - surely not another concept you extracted from a book you cannot believe is telling you the truth about anything. this is a strange concept for many christian, i know. but my faith is not based on a book.
You're cast adrift once you suppose evil eminates from God, Arach. You enter Alice in Wonderland land. and yet, there it is in the bible, in black and white: "I create evil." you're one saying that's a lie -- not me.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
arachnophilia writes: How would you know either way if God can lie to you. AH! tough question, isn't it? Over the years, I have had several friends who were inveterate liars. Would I trust them with my life? Yes. Would I trust them to never betray me? Yes. Would I trust them to help me when I needed them? Yes. Would I believe every story they told? No. We were friends because over all the good outweighed the bad. (And chances are they "overlooked" some of my flaws, too. ) Similarly, even if God can lie (and even if that is perceived as a flaw), it is our over all relationship with Him that counts. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
as an aside point, "can" and "does" are very different words. god CAN lie. but DOES god lie?
and the question of whether the bible is truthful or not is a second, unrelated question, that iano is conflating with the issue.
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iano Member (Idle past 1968 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Whatever gave you the impression that he wants to be followed?
i dunno. something about setting all kinds of rules and laws, and that whole bit about faith and salvation. somewhere in there. Who says there are any rules in fact? You believe a god who can lie to you?
How would you know either way if God can lie to you.
AH! tough question, isn't it? More than tough I would suggest. You cannot know. You cannot trust what God says - can you?
but my faith is not based on a book Based? One cannot base faith on anything if God is capable of lies.
and yet, there it is in the bible, in black and white: "I create evil." You're one saying that's a lie -- not me. I'm not saying it is a lie. God creates evil that is true. On the other hand you are saying it is true that he creates evil. On what basis - given that you say God can lie? A lying God can lie about creating evil. Maybe God cannot create anything at all. There might not be anything such as evil at all - just moral relativism Nope, it seems to me like you end up going in cicles when you suppose God can lie to you.
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