Bible: Word of God or Not

I am genuinely curious and have a question for those who believe the bible is true, reliable and the word of God:

What is the single most compelling reason or piece of evidence that leads you to conclude that the bible is the "word of god".

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Alternately for those that have studied and considered this question and have concluded otherwise:

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What is the single most compelling reason or piece of evidence that leads you to conclude that the bible is not the "word of god".

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I specifically did not state infallible or inerrant so as not to get hung up on those definitions.

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Try to keep to a single point, which I know is difficult since sometimes corroborating and the quantity of evidence is significant in forming an opinion.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

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What is the single most compelling reason or piece of evidence that leads you to conclude that the bible is not the "word of god".

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The fact that many books are clearly the product of a human author - some are even letters!Add to that the contradictions, the changing view of God, the historical problems and the failure of prophecy and I do not see how any rational person could consider the Bible to be in any way God's direct creation.

The first inkling I had came when I read about:"the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus."It and the like (general theme: finding rest in God) hit the nail on the head in describing what I had experienced when I cried out to him - but which I couldn't have described precisely because it was beyond understanding. After that is was reading of the sense of cleaniness and lack of burden that comes with forgiveness which I also found to be the case. In a larger sense, the description of the activities and nature of fallen mankind fit perfectly with the way the world is.It was a gradual thing moving from accepting at face value it was the word of God (by suspending disbelief) to becoming convinced it was. I remember reading some passage or other at a point and the thought dawned on me. "You couldn't make this up - it all fits"

I can't say that I have studied it in any depth, but perhaps the outsider's view is of interest. For me, the question of whether the bible is the word of God is clearly a resounding NO for the simple reason that the collection of texts we call the bible is quite obviously the result of a series of historical events, accidental and planned, of human beings rather than divinity.For a start, what bible do you mean? The Protestant (King James) bible contains 66 books, while the Catholic and Orthodox (Latin Vulgate and Greek Septaguint) bible contains 73; the eastern orthodox bible apparently contains 79 books, three of which are not found in bibles of other denominations; the General Church of the New Jerusalem has a bible in which two books (Genesis and Exodus) were completely rewritten by the Swedish theologian Emanuel Swedenborg in the eighteenth century. These differences are clearly attributable to the decisions of specific human beings at specific historical moments rather than to divinities.The book itself is available in well over 2000 languages, each of which is the result of one or a number of translators making their own personal decisions about the meaning of the text, elaborating it or cutting bits out; certainly the vast majority of practicing Christians have never even seen the bible in its original language (languages?) and would not know how to read it even if they could see it.Since what we call "the bible" doesn't really exist (there are only "bibles") and since the bibles are clearly rooted in human agency rather than divine agency, it seems impossible that we can say with any validity that one particular version is the word of God.That's just the view of somebody with little interest in theology - perhaps some of the resident experts can correct my misunderstandings, if any exist.Mick

In a nutshell, it's the multitude of contradictions, false prophecies, historical improbability and vague, erratic doctrine. A more accurate statement would be to say that the Bible is the "word of gods", as there are at least two gods described therein. The differences between Yahweh, the war god described in the OT and God the Father, the self-righteous, rules-bound god of the NT are striking in themselves.I used to be a Christian for a long time. Even as a believer, I always saw the OT as Jewish history & mythology and nothing more. The desperate attempts of my fellow Christians to re-concile the NT with the OT always seemed to me both comical and unnecessary. It was almost as if the book had to be right, no matter what! (at the same time I was being taught not to worship idols, oh the irony )Then, as I progressed into studying the NT more I was also perplexed by the contradictions it contained, false prophecies (even by Jesus himself) and doctrinal differences between various books. How could an all-powerful God who wants us to believe in him, have had written (or even endorsed) such a thing ? Slowly I came to realise that if God existed and cared about us he would never have allowed such a book of errors, confusion and defamation to him to exist in the first place, let alone have it written himself. Yes, it's true, the Bible made me an atheist! But I'm digressing, I hope I've answered your question.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

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Genesis 3: And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

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John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

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14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

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John 17:16: They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17Sanctify them (or set them apart) by the truth; your word is truth.

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John 16:13: But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth."

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People are prone to looking at the Bible as merely words on a page and a lot of time is spent tearing things apart to find contradiction and error and the like. To analyse it as one would an instruction manual. But a very large point is missed, to whit: what Gods word actually is and what it is capable of.Generally speaking our words have power. They can make us laugh and cry, become angry or proud. Gods word is similar. It has power - and a fair bit more more than our own words. Referring to the verses above:God spoke things into existance. His word did that. And with our science we are only scratching on the surface in our understanding of the workings of what he simply spoke into being. We are like so many ants at work.The word became flesh. Jesus. There are no words of ours that can do that.His word is truth. Not lie.Last but not least, believers will be guided to the truth by the Holy Spirit.Patently it doesn't matter whether some of the truth is missing in the case that books missing from some Bibles are in fact Gods word. Nor is it essential that a translation transmit things with perfection. Nor does it matter that men differ over meaning. The purpose of the Bible is not that men arrive at definitive theology, nor that the whole thing is understood as one would attempt to understand an instruction manual. The purpose of Gods word is twofold:- to draw unbelievers to himself
- to sanctify believers (to change them so that they conform to the image of his son).Martin Luther was converted by a verse in Romans. The truth was contained in the verse and though he could see a lot he wasn't making the final connection. Then God revealed the truth to him and he was saved. Similarily with the gospel as a whole. It is words on a page in one sense and a man can come to an intellectual understanding of what it is with a little effort. But the gospel is also described as "the power of God unto salvation for all who believe". The words contain not only truth, they contain Gods power. If words are included which are not from God then a person won't be guided to them by God, nor will they contain Gods power. Certainly the power is sufficient to dissolve any intellectual barriers a person may have - for once they see the truth their way of looking at the Bible changes from what it was to what it is supposed to be.This doesn't mean that a believer won't be guided to words that are not true by something else: own pride, own understanding (on which we are told not to rely), satan. We remain sinners, believer or no. Martin Luthers conversionIts hard to draw a picture of what I mean but this may help. Here we have two different translations giving two slightly different takes. Consider clicking on the link as the truth contained in Gods word being revealed to you.Gods word (King James Version) John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.Gods word (NIV version) John1:9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world
.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

as opposed to...? Bingo! so if a book is full of errors, contradictions and ..ahem..un-truths, what does that make it ?

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Legends auto-response software version 1. Not bad considering...

Hi Iano,Thanks for your comments. i just had one little off-topic question to satisfy my curiosity. In your quotation from John 1, who or what is the "He" who was with god in the beginning?Mickps. i willl check out the links! thanks Edited by mick, : No reason given.Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Jesus. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

I wouldn't say that it IS the word of God, but that it CONTAINS the word of God. This is obvious, because it was not written by God Himself.The single most piece of compelling evidence for me, is the love I feel through the power of the Holy Spirit which Jesus promises us in the bible.That's the simple answer. Getting to that point is a bit more complicated, and simple.

Have you ever thought of trying to look past what you feel are errors, and just have faith?

Hopefully you will get what I meant in comparing two translations of the same verse. Gods word as a portal revealing something far larger.Not a bad site linked though. Interesting stuff there

That would be his line manager, remeber it he was new to the job . Edited by AdminPD, : Warning