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Author | Topic: Spiritual Warfare Fight Thread... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
But it's even funnier than that !
God: "Hey! that guy can't see me. Guess I'd better punish him by making it so he can't see me." I suppose at least that the unmerited punishment is so ineffectual that there is no real injustice - but I always thought that God was supposed to be a bit brighter than that.
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compmage Member (Idle past 5154 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
Phatboy writes: I just want to show them our relationship! Please have mercy on all of us! Personally, any being who is performing, or has threatened to perform, acts of such a nature that I am willing to beg for mercy (assuming that I can't just stop them), isn't the sort of being I would want to have ANY sort of relationship with. Simply put, if god is soo cruel that people beg for mercy, maybe he isn't the sort of person you should be friends with. Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it. - Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Not a very good father, then. At least, not by any definition of good parenting I have ever heard. Good parents love their children even if the children act out, hate, disown the parents. Parental love is not conditional.
quote: LOL! Well, if God's love has even one condition, that kind of precludes it's being UNconditional, doesn't it?
quote: So, I don't know, nor do I have any way of knowing, the consequences of my actions, yet I will be punished for not doing the right thing? More bad parenting.
quote: Apparently, God is also a lousy, inconsistent, fickle parent which can turn His love for His children off and on at His whim. Good thing we hold human parents to a higher standard, eh?
quote: Accoding to you, sure.
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
Your subjective standard of what defines good parenting is nothing but a lousy excuse for whitewashing the sin of rejecting the Creator, which boils down to not wanting a Boss.
IF God is, then whatever He does is right. Who can challenge Him ? Now how foolish is your stance of defiance. You hate the thought of being accountable and dealing with Someone who demands that you accept a claim on your life. Your logic of good parenting transposed upon God says that He must love you always and continuously even if you sneer at Him OR He does not exist. Where do you get your ideas about God ? What is your source ? These questions are rhetorical. You get them from this present faithless generation which is more in love with themself than God. The Bible predicted our present culture, as it is the first generation in history to refuse the romance that God offers. Your criticisms of God are meaningless because they lack any objective integrity. Its your way, all the way, all the time, that a God must pass my self centered litmus test and revolve around me or I won't be bothered. God demands that YOU revolve around Him. When this happens, He will romance you like a Father, He will come running when He sees you afar off and kill the fatted calf, He will place the gold chain of His Son in your heart, and "ALL that is Mine is thine". But you have to respond, which is so little a requirement.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
IF God is, then whatever He does is right. Who can challenge Him ? We can. God says so in Genesis 3:22. We have the same ability to determine right from wrong that he does.
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
that's called rhetoric, which is the misuse of logic in order to support a belief.
All you have done is to use that which is intended to bring you to Him, (His word) as a vehicle to do that which you are already doing. (rejecting Him) There is nothing unique in this. People everyday use the Bible to rationalize their own way, which by defintion is not God's way. Why don't you find a different source to justify your rejection of God.
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
"He is a formidable but just enemy"...."restrained only by His hope"
Ben : I really like this description. Very good way to put it !
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I do have a boss. She's a wonderful employer and we have a great, mutually-respectful relationship. The kind of capricious, fickle, trick-playing, unfair Boss you are describing doesn't seem to be worth my respect.
quote: Um, if God said it was OK to murder and rape people, woould you consider it just and moral to do so? I wouldn't, but by your definition of "good", which seems to be "God says X is good", you would think that murder and rape is "good".
quote: Excuse me! I am VERY accountable for my actions to myself, my family, my friends, coworkers, and my society. I don't get where you get off having an opinion about my feelings of accountability at all.
quote: Yep. Surely, since God made me and is all-knowing, he made me to be just like I am, and with full knowledge that I would be like I am. BTW, I actually do not know if God exists or not, although I do not think that it is likely that we could detect of conceive of God anyway.
quote: I was raised a Catholic and attended 14 years of Catechism. They always told us that God loved everyone, even the non-believers, because we were all his children. That was the message of Jesus; that even though he was persecuted and tortured, he still loved all people enough to die for their sins. He loved everyone; even the people who didn't believe he was the messiah, and he died for their souls, too.
quote: Whoops! Wrong on that one. BTW, I'm hardly going to be in the "current generation". I'm 36.
quote: LOL!! I'd love a nickel for every time somebody has said that over the last 2000 years.
quote: Does this mean that I hit a nerve? I mean, you certainly are getting upset. Maybe God is a bad parent, able to turn off his love, but why worship a god of conditional love?It seems like you are anthromorphising God, only to make him more shallow and vindictive, like a juvenile human. quote: Look, any God which I'm going to consider has to behave more powerfully and less weakly and needily than a neurotic emotional vampire. Why is God so dependent upon me to believe in him? What's with the ego problem?
quote: Why? HE'S GOD!! I ask again, what's the deal with the ego problem? If you are going to instill all of these human emotional needs into your God, then I think it's perfectly fair for me to describe Him in the way I have.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: How do you know that you are not using the Bible to rationalize your own way, while convincing yourself that it is God's way?
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
text book atheist rant.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
text book atheist rant. Yea, because that is the kind of answer that one always gets back. So the question gets asked again and there is no answer again.
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3048 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
common sense isn't
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 735 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
I'd love a nickel for every time somebody has said that over the last 2000 years.
Schraf, that much nickel has yet to be mined.....
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I think that the question - the one the really militant believers never seem to answer - is, why does the relationship they describe having with God seem so dysfunctional compared to true, loving relationships that humans have with each other?
God's like an abusive boyfriend. Who wants to worship that?
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hitchy Member (Idle past 5118 days) Posts: 215 From: Southern Maryland via Pittsburgh Joined: |
...fulfills the need for "guidence" that some people think they need in their lives. Others believe in god b/c they were brought up to believe and if they want to remain part of the family or community, they continue to believe or become ostracized. Some believe b/c it is comforting. Some believe b/c it gives them a sense of purpose or power. Others believe b/c it justifies their morality.
I don't believe b/c the "guidence" provided by god is just you finally making up your mind for whatever reason. I also don't believe b/c I think it is a cop-out to say "it is in god's hands now" or "it is god's will". WTF!?! Some things happen b/c of random chance. Other things happen b/c humans influence events around themselves for whatever reason. Anyway, whatever happens can be explained without resorting to "god did it". Sometimes the explanation is not always immediately apparent, but given time, can be found. Sometimes you just have to say "F--- it" and be yourself no matter what others think. I am not saying to be offensive or anything, but if you are ostracized for being who you are, you probably shouldn't have been there in the first place. You cannot control how others act. You can only control how you react to them. If they have a problem, that's what it is--their problem. I started a story on another thread about a born-again (?) christian I almost married right out of college. Her mother hated me b/c I could not stand by while she spouted out stupid shit all the time. I tried to be respectful, but when you finally obtain a degree in biology and then are told that snakes lost their legs just like it says in the bible or that all Catholics are going to hell (I was raised Catholic and she knew that) or that I needed spiritual guidence b/c I didn't think the way they did, etc. you just lose it. However, for as much abuse I took about not being a BAC, I at least did not comment on how much my girl liked premarital sex (that is still a no-no, right?) or how much money the mother wasted on make-up or on how much slanderous gossip she spread right after we would get out of church or her "throwing stones" at all of us "heathens". I think that we should spend time trying to improve this world, not preparing ourselves for an afterlife that might or might not exist. Remember, good works don't get you to heaven, so why bother with them? God gets to pick and choose for whatever reason--that sounds fair, right!?! One more thing, don't tell me I don't believe in god b/c god is making me not believe in him/her/it b/c I have rejected him/her/it. What kind of BS is that? {added by edit--This is not directed at crashfrog (in case anyone could not tell.)} [This message has been edited by hitchy, 03-05-2004]
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