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Author Topic:   A question for believers - why the Bible?
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 31 of 79 (171948)
12-28-2004 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Morte
12-20-2004 6:04 PM


This is a reply to the O.P - forgive my laziness, I haven't read the responses.
Why do you, personally, believe that the Bible is divinely inspired? (not necessarily as compared to any other religious text - even simply on its own, what makes you believe that the Bible was God's form of teaching us what we needed to know about Him?)
In it's entirety, I believe it because when I was basically a secularist, I didn't understand it. And apparently people still don't get it - or say it is contradictory etc. But it seems to go far deeper, I have came to understand what it means in places.
Also, the Theology of Christ and the NT really answer all the questions for me. The fruit of the Spirit being the explanation of how one can not be under the law.
But also, Genesis and other books - when talking about the creation, are accurate. Maybe not scientifically from a modern perspective - but rather, there is nothing ludicrous about the things written pertaining to life on earth. Example; God let the earth bring forth life - whereas a myth of another religion would say the earth was brought on a camel or something. But the first passage of Genesis doesn't describe how, This - for me, is tremendous - usually, if the writer was trying to give a reason, they'd make them up according to the understanding of their age. But Genesis 1 itself, begins with no answers for "how";
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And then it goes on to talk of almost boring, factual like statements (In the first chapter). That darkness was on the face of the deep etc...but no silly statements, for example "And God made the sun by the fire of his nostrils of flesh, and the moon with his inflamed hemaroid". (Dan-time)/
So for me - it just explains everything. But Jesus Christ is the main reason - I mean, he explains everything without selfishness, or human reasons. And he shows the nature of God.
For example - does this not reflect reality? -->
Satan tempted Christ - and God done nothing, they asked him to prove himself by coming down off the cross - and he done nothing. So God isn't tempted by doubters or evil. This kind of theology is crucial - it answers reality aswell. We all suffer - so did God and he was more innocent than anyone. ANd so many things like this. Hundreds of theological reasons.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 12-28-2004 16:24 AM
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 12-28-2004 16:26 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Morte, posted 12-20-2004 6:04 PM Morte has not replied

  
Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 79 (172002)
12-28-2004 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by asciikerr
12-24-2004 1:22 AM


Re: Merry CHRISTmas & Feliz Navidad.
asciikerr wrote:
explaining why they did this, that or the other during ancient times isn't going to help the discussion. The way this should work is by the example you gave: "plethora of absurd and inapplicable solutions for real world situations"
You claimed that the Bible is full of "sound Biblical solutions for real-world situations". With two minutes to spare, I quoted three Biblical solutions that are inapplicable to real world situations and are absurd.
Can you tell me any situation where those three quotes are sound?
You provide a real-world situation: Wife cheated & seeks forgiveness.
I use the Bible for a practical solution:
Ok. Let's try these real world situations:
1) The space shuttle Columbia had suspected heat tile damage after a chunk of ice broke off and struck the wing leading edge on lift-off. Given the technology and resouces available to the NASA and the shuttle crew, use the Bible to provide a practical solution for this situation.
Quote Bible verses in support of your answer.
2) My neice developed epilepsy (or she is possessed by demons: it's kinda hard to tell) after an injury to her head. Use the Bible to explain to her why she developed this injury and what medical options are available to her to help alleviate or cure her condition.
Quote Bible verses in support of your answer.
3) I do a lot of open water swimming, as a part of my triathlon training. For the first time ever, I was chased out of the water by a shark while swimming 100m offshore on the Gold Coast. I still wish to do long open water swims: so what can I do to eliminate the chance of shark attack while swimming alone, well of shore?
Quote Bible verses in support of your answer.
4) My neighbours daughters are avid fans of the Charmed television series, and I suspect would-be witches. While it is probably only a harmless phase of adolescent make-believe, can the Bible suggest a way that their parents can help these kids develop critical thinking techniques as adults that will make them resilient to the scams, and flim flam of modern day new-agism and religions?
Why should they be allowed to live?
Quote Bible verses in support of your answer.
5) My girlfriend is bi-sexual and I have no issue with her having girlfriends of her own. This has many benefits for our relationsip: it allows her to fulfill another apsect of her sexuality, assists me coping with her high maintenance nature as she gets additional support outside our relationship, teaches her what it is like the date women from a "male perspective", we both get to perve on women (and I don't get in trouble), and, I get the, ahem, occasional tid-bit.
She left her girlfriends behind when she moved from Brisbane to Sydney to be with me. Syndey is a much more conservative town. What is the best way for us to go about finding her another girlfriend in this new city?
Quote Bible verses in support of your answer.
6) A acquaintance of mine is involved in a cult. This cult has been documented to be very damaging to the financial, pyschological and in some cases physical health of it's adherents. Many of the tenets the cult espouses are demonstrably false as they conflict with modern scientific knowledge, our understanding of history and fail controlled tests.
How can the Bible help me show my acquaintance that what he believes in is false and damaging?
Quote Bible verses in support of your answer.
7) What is the safest amount of boost that I can regularly use for my internally stock 2001 Subaru STI 2 litre, if I want to get at least 100,000kms out of the engine before re-building? The car is regularly driven hard.
Quote Bible verses in support of your answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by asciikerr, posted 12-24-2004 1:22 AM asciikerr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by asciikerr, posted 12-28-2004 10:23 PM Gilgamesh has replied
 Message 35 by asciikerr, posted 12-29-2004 3:02 AM Gilgamesh has replied

  
asciikerr
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 79 (172005)
12-28-2004 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Gilgamesh
12-28-2004 9:35 PM


Re: Merry CHRISTmas & Feliz Navidad.
This will take me some time, but I will find Biblical answers for ya!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Gilgamesh, posted 12-28-2004 9:35 PM Gilgamesh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Gilgamesh, posted 12-28-2004 10:55 PM asciikerr has not replied

  
Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 79 (172017)
12-28-2004 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by asciikerr
12-28-2004 10:23 PM


Merry christMYTH
asciikerr wrote
This will take me some time, but I will find Biblical answers for ya!
Excellent! I'm looking forward to it. Remember, it can't be absurd and must be applicable!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by asciikerr, posted 12-28-2004 10:23 PM asciikerr has not replied

  
asciikerr
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 79 (172042)
12-29-2004 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Gilgamesh
12-28-2004 9:35 PM


How's This!?
I even added LINKS so you can read up on them, in case you were too "busy" to actually search out the scriptures yourself. Honestly though, your life must be perfect if your only real worries are concerning the amount of boost to add to your Subaru. When real problems come and you have no answers...pray to God and take a stroll through the Bible.
1) The space shuttle Columbia had suspected heat tile damage after a chunk of ice broke off and struck the wing leading edge on lift-off. Given the technology and resouces available to the NASA and the shuttle crew, use the Bible to provide a practical solution for this situation.
A bit out of context, but they really should've prayed before the actual flight as scripture would teach, "And pray that your flight may not be in 'winter' or on the Sabbath" (Mat 24:20). Then they wouldn't have to worry about that chunk of Ice! Also, they should really pray to God for their salvation & a miracle. If anyone can work a miracle, its God.
2) My neice developed epilepsy (or she is possessed by demons: it's kinda hard to tell) after an injury to her head. Use the Bible to explain to her why she developed this injury and what medical options are available to her to help alleviate or cure her condition.
In John 9, we find the disciples asking a similar question "...who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" In much the same way, both people were struck with an affliction, one was blind the other an epileptic. There is always a chance that these people will be healed in order to Glorify God (Luke 17:11-17;Luke 18:43; Acts 3:7-8). In ancient times, there were also people that could find no cure for their conditions. The Bible records one such lady who was afflicated for 12 yrs and only becamed healed by her faith in Jesus (Mark 5:25-29,34). So, if doctors, surgeons are specialists can't seem to find a cure for this persons epilepsy, try going to a "Bible" believing and Bible preaching church, ask the Pastor to pray over that person (James 5:14-16).
3) I do a lot of open water swimming, as a part of my triathlon training. For the first time ever, I was chased out of the water by a shark while swimming 100m offshore on the Gold Coast. I still wish to do long open water swims: so what can I do to eliminate the chance of shark attack while swimming alone, well of shore?
First off, as an unbeliever you have bigger problems. The Bible puts it plainly, "Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matt 10:28). So rather than worrying about the Shark which may gobble you up, you should fear God Almighty who has the ability to destroy both your soul & body in Hell. Now, to eliminate the chance of a shark attack, I go to Proverbs for sound wisdom concerning the matter. Proverbs 27:12 reads, "A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself; The simple pass on and are punished." Prudent in the dictionary says "to excercise good judgement or common sense." Try learning the area and ideal times for swimming, learn as much as you can to better minimize the chance of a Shark Attack. If you don't, then as Proverbs reads, "the simple pass on and are punished." So definately have a game plan!
4) My neighbours daughters are avid fans of the Charmed television series, and I suspect would-be witches. While it is probably only a harmless phase of adolescent make-believe, can the Bible suggest a way that their parents can help these kids develop critical thinking techniques as adults that will make them resilient to the scams, and flim flam of modern day new-agism and religions?
Why should they be allowed to live?
Again, their primary concern should be...do they know the Lord!? Now lets go to scripture to see what the Bible says about Witches. Exodus 22:18 reads, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." The Bible doesn't distinguish between a "Good" witch or a "Bad" witch. So even the Good Witch of Wizard of Oz would be sharing hellfire w/the Bad witch. Again, scripture says, "Abstain from all 'appearance' of evil" (1Thess 5:22). Yes, that is why Christians don't let their kids play Harry Potter etc., As Christians we are to "Abhor what is evil & Cling to what is good" (Rom 12:9). So should you stone your kids? No, consult w/their parents and they are to raise their children in a Godly environment...once they find the true joy of knowing Jesus...Harry Potter and Charmed T.V. shows will pale in comparison.
5) My girlfriend is bi-sexual and I have no issue with her having girlfriends of her own. This has many benefits for our relationsip: it allows her to fulfill another apsect of her sexuality, assists me coping with her high maintenance nature as she gets additional support outside our relationship, teaches her what it is like the date women from a "male perspective", we both get to perve on women (and I don't get in trouble), and, I get the, ahem, occasional tid-bit. She left her girlfriends behind when she moved from Brisbane to Sydney to be with me. Syndey is a much more conservative town. What is the best way for us to go about finding her another girlfriend in this new city?
Simple enough, the Bible tell us the elements by which they operate and how to avoid them...you need only do the opposite of its warnings & precepts. Even in ancient times the harlots hung out at corners during the black and dark nights, they would lurk around corners looking for their customers or prey. They would even be so bold as to come meet you face to face (Prov 7:7-15). Again, not much has changed...be careful what you asked for, you just might get it!
6) A acquaintance of mine is involved in a cult. This cult has been documented to be very damaging to the financial, pyschological and in some cases physical health of it's adherents. Many of the tenets the cult espouses are demonstrably false as they conflict with modern scientific knowledge, our understanding of history and fail controlled tests. How can the Bible help me show my acquaintance that what he believes in is false and damaging?
You can win the argument, but still lose their soul my friend. Even if you proved w/o a shadow of a doubt that the Bible & God were true through Prophecy, Revelation, Miracles, Secular History, Archeology etc., their Free-Will still causes them to follow blindly. Them's just the breaks man, I'm sure you know what I mean! Have them read about "The Prodigal Son" (Luke 15:11-31). Most you can do is let them know that when they have no where else to go, and everybody else has rejected & forsaken them...God hasn't and never will. His door will always be open. "For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you" (Heb 13:5).
7) What is the safest amount of boost that I can regularly use for my internally stock 2001 Subaru STI 2 litre, if I want to get at least 100,000kms out of the engine before re-building? The car is regularly driven hard.
Again, as an unbeliever...you should really focus on what really matters. "...seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you" (Matt 6:33). If you were a believer I would say, pray to God, ask for wisdom, knowledge & understanding (Prov 2:1-6). Being the unbeliever that you are, I somehow figured you wouldn't, so I have taken the liberty to pray for you concerning this question as the Bible would have me do. This is what I've come up with...
The safest amount of boost you can regulary use is:
1 Bar or 14.7psi if you live in the states.
1.1 Bar in 3rd, 4th & 5th Gear.
If your gauge reads in Mpa, then use this as references: .07 = 10.15 & .10 = 14.50
Keep in mind that the standard atmospheric pressure also plays a role in your PSI.
Example: If you were at 5000ft, the PSI would be 12.23 as opposed to 14.70 psi for being at Sea level. Click >HERE< for more info on that.
*Special Considerations:
-Try running a colder spark plug to keep your detonation down & the engine from melting down as well.
-Avoid Octane Boosters, they may contain lead or "lead-like" substances which cause damage to the catalytic convertor and oxygen sensor. It will usually retard engine timing along with reducing the maximum boost available from the turbo.
-Improving the gas will make your engine smoother and the economy will increase marginally. Not sure if the price of premium fuel justifies the marginal increase in performance though!
-When starting the engine from cold, avoid hard accelerations (high revs) until you have "fully" warmed up the engine. Most engine wear happens within the first few minutes of starting the engine when the oil is cold and hasn't had time to fully circulate.
-After doing your "Hard Driving," you really should let your engine idle for at least 1 min. This gives lets your circulating oil dissipate the majority of the excess heat built up in the turbo. If you don't, it causes increased thermal stress on the turbo (bearings usually) and can severely "fry" the already stationary engine oil. This then becomes useless slude...continued use leads to the "coking" of the internals (carbon deposits that damage become difficult to remove). Never switch your engine off immediately after "Driving Hard," no matter what kind of hurry your in.
Follow these measures and you'll easily be able to avoid rebuilding your engine before 100,000kms. I really did hope you would take this opportunity for questioning more seriously, the Bible does provide the answers for everyday living. Self-help books, psychologists and the wisdom of men won't give you the answers you need, only God's message for you will.
And your welcome! May God be with you...
This message has been edited by asciikerr, 12-30-2004 02:58 AM

Acts 17:11 "These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Gilgamesh, posted 12-28-2004 9:35 PM Gilgamesh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2004 9:56 PM asciikerr has replied
 Message 72 by Gilgamesh, posted 01-04-2005 12:12 AM asciikerr has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 37 of 79 (172376)
12-30-2004 7:48 PM


Hey, Gil, having dived for a few years off the Gold Coast, I made friends with quite a few sharks. I put out the word to leave you alone. Does that help?
Actually, I think you can buy a personal electronic shark repeller now at dive shops. Might be a tad exey, but them`s the breaks.

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 79 (172379)
12-30-2004 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jimbo
12-22-2004 6:40 PM


Hey, I saw "The Elegant Universe" in AP Physics!
But anyway, to answer the question: because it's inspired by God.
But what does believing that ultimately come down to? Faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jimbo, posted 12-22-2004 6:40 PM Jimbo has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 39 of 79 (172397)
12-30-2004 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by asciikerr
12-24-2004 1:22 AM


Re: Merry CHRISTmas & Feliz Navidad.
actually the bible says you should stone her. you can't pick and choose what you want to follow. if the bible is inerrant you have to follow the exact wording of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by asciikerr, posted 12-24-2004 1:22 AM asciikerr has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by commike37, posted 12-30-2004 10:56 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 40 of 79 (172401)
12-30-2004 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by asciikerr
12-29-2004 3:02 AM


Re: How's This!?
um. ice doesn't require winter. oh right. the bible doesn't say much about the atmosphere and it's cold and hot layers. oops.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by asciikerr, posted 12-29-2004 3:02 AM asciikerr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by asciikerr, posted 12-30-2004 10:53 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
asciikerr
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 79 (172426)
12-30-2004 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by macaroniandcheese
12-30-2004 9:56 PM


Everybody's a Critic...
How can you find fault in what I posted?
1) The space shuttle Columbia had suspected heat tile damage after a chunk of ice broke off and struck the wing leading edge on lift-off. Given the technology and resouces available to the NASA and the shuttle crew, use the Bible to provide a practical solution for this situation.
Notice this happened "on lift-off." Says nothing about breaking into the outter atmosphere...I stayed close to his question.
4) My neighbours daughters are avid fans of the Charmed television series, and I suspect would-be witches. While it is probably only a harmless phase of adolescent make-believe, can the Bible suggest a way that their parents can help these kids develop critical thinking techniques as adults that will make them resilient to the scams, and flim flam of modern day new-agism and religions?
Why should they be allowed to live?
You forgot the supporting verses to any death sentence. In any death sentence, there needs to be witnesses. Even these "would-be" witches would need accusers & witnesses against them before being stoned to death.
Deu 17:6
Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness.
Exodus 20:16
"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Hope that helps clear things up...and your right, I only go by the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2004 9:56 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2004 11:01 PM asciikerr has not replied

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 79 (172427)
12-30-2004 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by macaroniandcheese
12-30-2004 9:50 PM


Stoning in the OT
Actually, that's in the Old Testament. The Jews were governed by these laws, but with the coming of Jesus, we live by His grace, not the law. We can't fulfill the law, but He fulfilled it for us. And our good works come because of grace, not because of the law. And speaking specifically to the situation of adultery, Jesus encountered an adulterer who should've been stoned in John 8:1-11. Instead of stoning her, He forgives her.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2004 9:50 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2004 11:03 PM commike37 has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 43 of 79 (172429)
12-30-2004 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by asciikerr
12-30-2004 10:53 PM


Re: Everybody's a Critic...
heh. i'm not so much a critic as a tester. i'm a christian who wonders why people follow this crazy book blindly.
i think it's quite obvious that god has a prime directive. otherwise, we would have always been an advanced civilization, neh? so my query is this. why do you listen to a book written by primitive peoples in solving your problems rather than speaking to the man yourself? no i don't simply disregard the whole book, but i'm not going to disregard the conscience and wisdom that god gave me.
and frankly. i caught ringworm (a nasty fungus) from my kittens. i'm not going to pray for a cure and sit calmly while my hair falls out, i'm gonna go to the doctor and get an anti-fungal.
that's all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by asciikerr, posted 12-30-2004 10:53 PM asciikerr has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 44 of 79 (172430)
12-30-2004 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by commike37
12-30-2004 10:56 PM


Re: Stoning in the OT
hi. um. jesus was a jew. he said that he did not come to change the law. paul was the one who said we didn't have to follow the law, not jesus. read your bible and stop listening to your pastor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by commike37, posted 12-30-2004 10:56 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by commike37, posted 12-30-2004 11:27 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 79 (172437)
12-30-2004 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by macaroniandcheese
12-30-2004 11:03 PM


Re: Stoning in the OT
jesus was a jew. he said that he did not come to change the law.
Jesus actually frequently angererd the Pharisees because he wasn't following the OT rule (or at least their interpretation of it). However, he was following God, so he certainly wasn't sinning. And each time his wisdom prevailed over that of the Pharisees.
read your bible and stop listening to your pastor.
FYI, I'm not that type of person. Don't make false accusations.
Also, are you trying to imply that the Bible is not inerrant?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2004 11:03 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2004 11:37 PM commike37 has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 46 of 79 (172438)
12-30-2004 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by commike37
12-30-2004 11:27 PM


Re: Stoning in the OT
yes, but jesus never broke the law. the jews built walls around the law. (they still do. where in the ot does it say not to use the same silverware for meat and cheese?) jesus often transgressed these walls, but never the law.
and i'm also implying that paul quite contradicts jesus on SEVERAL occasions.
but then my faith in god doesn't depend on the words of man being accurate.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 12-30-2004 23:39 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by commike37, posted 12-30-2004 11:27 PM commike37 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by commike37, posted 12-30-2004 11:48 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
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