The "Gospel" Of John

What do YOU think about John, brennakimi? I forgot what your basic belief system is, but for the record, I am a theist and I have been profoundly influenced by the Bible at some times and mildly annoyed with it at other times. I base my faith on the Spirit of God which I believe to be in me, but I do not know if i regard the Bible as inerrent. John is quite possibly my favorite among the Gospels, however. How about you?

What type of conversations do you and your friends have concerning this book? Fascinating and respectful that you know people who strongly believe opposite ways!

Arachnophia, what constitutes your definition of a Believer? How does a Christian be so defined in light of your stance on scriptural fallibility? Where then does the source of authority originate?
It is not in the intellect or the education, since no standard apart from human wisdom is upheld.It is not in the Bible, if the Bible is an error prone literary adjunct.Where is your source?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-07-2004 04:17 AM

Well praise God! I cannot fault a guy who claims to be doing the work of God. These guys are intellectuals who purport to be serious students of the Bible. I am unlearned to joust with them on THAT level, although I have always known a believer to be a TRUE believer by deferring any human wisdom to the overwhelming wisdom of the living Spirit of God! So in agreement with you, swift, let God be true and every man a liar! As to this topic and the Gospel of Juhn, I am not so inclined to think that a person must believe in the inerrancy of scripture to be saved. I may pose the question to Arachnophilia: What must a person do to be saved in your belief? Does the action of deference to the Spirit apply? (I am slightly off topic, but I want to clear up the importance of John as Inerrant scripture vs John as fallible literature as it pertains to what constitutes a Believer.)This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-07-2004 04:13 AM

Thanks for opening up a bit. I always believe that the importance of the Bible is not the book itself, but the person within and behind the book. For those who believe in scriptural inerrancy, the person of God guided the authors. For others, like you, the person of god is evident in scripture and the person of God is alive and real to you. You need to be humble to explain Him, and I appreciate the fact that you did so by being honest. God lives in Heaven and He also lives within those who believe in Him. By showing each other our inner heart and soul instead of mere intellectual dualing, we allow God to shine through us. Keep up the scholarship that you have, Arachnophilia! I see the person behind the passion, and the author and finisher of your faith involved in the details!
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as for John, I see the passion of a young man who loved Jesus in a deeper way than the other Disciples. I see a young author who knew the passion of Jesus and who knew the God behind the passion, working through Jesus to reach humanity.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-07-2004 02:55 PM

True enough. Yet without the Bible, how can anyone know God apart from relativistic thinking which in effect puts God inside human definition? In other words, my God could be your Satan, or visa versa. No standard=no agreed upon definition. Individual truth=reality, vs absolute standard=reality.========================================
Here is an example of what I consider a "good" preacher and how he describes Johns words of God affecting man: This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-10-2004 03:12 PM

Jar and I are touching on John now in another thread.First off, for the sake of this discussion lets not argue over who wrote John. Lets discuss their motive.Much of my belief is corroborated through John. I am not Jewish. I believe I was chosen yet I have the responsibility to walk righteously and try and do the best I can.I believe that Jesus is eternal...He was in the beginning with the Father. As a human, Jesus is the living Word. His words were formed long before He became human. (or at least before He walked on the earth.) How do we know that man invented words? How do we know that Jesus..who was made man...invented words before the rest of us?(or not) Finally, does reality shape belief or could it be be possible that reality is shaped by God and not merely observed and documented by man? (yes I know this could be allegedly a fanciful silly argument...but it need not be taken lightly.) What evidence do we have that these writings are any more inspirational than the Gospel Of John? Isnt a mans belief shaped by his preferred bias? Could it be that some of us dont want John to be potentially true?

Who is to say that GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen was not totally aware of the evolution of man and that the time had come to move on from Judaism as traditionally practiced? Additionally, I see no evidence that the author of John regarded the other Gospels as wrong. The Jews rejected the Messiah...He was a "failed Messiah" according to their logic, reason, and reality. What I am suggesting is that it was they as a people who failed...not Jesus. I have not studied this Egerton Gospel...I will have to check it out. I DO know that you have always had a fondness(and bias) towards Matthew 25 as a central core teaching regarding expected Christian(or human) behavior. You have argued that as the "woo" factor went up, the expectation of personal responsibility went down. I disagree---I maintain that John is only teaching us that we need to move beyond Doing For God and others. We need to commune with God. You no doubt will ask me how we are to do this. Once you get beyond the idea of an unknowable GOD and the idea that God likely doesnt care whether we even worship or acknowledge Her, you may begin to see the light. Additionally you have to get over your blanket disdain for the Chapters of Club Christian who teach that Jesus helps us. Communion is not abdication of personal responsibility---rather it enhances it. The Jewish community excluded Jesus. They failed their Messiah...He did not fail them. Agreed. What is the message, jar? Is GOD really unconcerned with communion with humanity? Are we really to try and do our best without regard of whether God is in us, around us or among us? Are we our own gods?

This all goes along with your assertion that Jesus, as portrayed in the first 3 Gospels, was only trying to reform Judaism and that the author of John, as well as Paul, were trying to create a new religion. Correct?I see Christianity as distinct from Judaism in that we rely on our communion with God Whom we believe to be established through the risen Christ. You prefer to stick with Matthew 25 and reformation of Judaism. Does 2017 jar wish to add anything to what 2004 jar wrote?(well done writing, I might add. I'm saving you time by including your earlier responses.)As I peruse this topic, I find our discussion was quite lively. Lets continue.