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Author Topic:   When was the Tower of Babel Made?
a visitor
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Message 1 of 56 (53218)
09-01-2003 11:33 AM


Ive been searching through sites and was wondering when exactly was the tower of babel made, i have my own thoughts on it but i was wondering what you guys think and why you gave the date you did, thx.
I personally think somewhere between 2281 and 2247 BC based on bible chronology

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by doctrbill, posted 09-01-2003 2:31 PM You have not replied
 Message 3 by defenderofthefaith, posted 09-02-2003 5:24 AM You have not replied
 Message 11 by kjsimons, posted 09-04-2003 9:23 AM You have not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 2 of 56 (53245)
09-01-2003 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by a visitor
09-01-2003 11:33 AM


quote:
"The only indication of the time at which the Tower of Babel was erected, we find in the name of Phaleg (Genesis 11:10-17), the grandnephew of Heber; this places the date somewhere between 101 and 870 years after the Flood. The limits are so unsatisfactory, because the Greek Version differs in its numbers from the Massoretic text."
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Tower of Babel
Now all one needs is to figure out the date of the flood. Good Luck.
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin.

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defenderofthefaith
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 56 (53457)
09-02-2003 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by a visitor
09-01-2003 11:33 AM


Dear visitor,
The Flood occurred in 2348 BC and the Tower of Babel was built, I generally assume, between 150 to 250 years later. Considering that Abraham left Ur about 2000 BC, the 22nd century BC seems a good bet for the Tower of Babel.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 56 (53479)
09-02-2003 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by defenderofthefaith
09-02-2003 5:24 AM


The Flood occurred in 2348 BC and the Tower of Babel was built, I generally assume, between 150 to 250 years later.
If you don't mind my asking, by who, exactly? Starting with 8 persons on the Ark, how could you arrive at enough people to employ in the construction of the Tower? That's some pretty unreasonable population growth, imo.
Unless the "Tower" of Babel was more like a stool.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 5 of 56 (53651)
09-03-2003 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
09-02-2003 9:23 AM


Not to mention that with only seven of each edible (to the jews) animal on the ark, there's going to be a few problems maintaining their diet while allowing these animals to multiply...

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defenderofthefaith
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 56 (53817)
09-04-2003 6:28 AM


Remember, crashfrog, how long people lived at those times. Noah was still alive in Abraham's day. It would seem they could have plenty of children in that case, and did, since God's command was to replenish the earth. Anyway, I did the math when this question came up on another board, and using conservative doubling figures you could easily get the population of the UK or even the US.
Mr Jack, the Jewish laws had not been given yet.

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 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 09-04-2003 9:22 AM defenderofthefaith has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 7 of 56 (53818)
09-04-2003 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by defenderofthefaith
09-04-2003 6:28 AM


Mr Jack, the Jewish laws had not been given yet.
Is that so? Then how was it that Noah was able to distinguish between the clean, and unclean, animals so that he could get the correct number of each on the ark? Did clean and unclean have a different meaning to those he could eat, and those he could not?
Genesis 7:2 "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." - King James Version

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defenderofthefaith
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 56 (53825)
09-04-2003 7:46 AM


Continue reading and you will come to Genesis 9:3: "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you."

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 9 of 56 (53826)
09-04-2003 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by defenderofthefaith
09-04-2003 7:46 AM


I ask again then, what does clean and unclean mean under these circumstances?

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 Message 8 by defenderofthefaith, posted 09-04-2003 7:46 AM defenderofthefaith has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 56 (53830)
09-04-2003 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by defenderofthefaith
09-04-2003 6:28 AM


Anyway, I did the math when this question came up on another board, and using conservative doubling figures you could easily get the population of the UK or even the US.
I'd like to see this math of yours, but it'd best be done in a new topic, I think. If you like. Me, I'm of the opinion that, in the devestated post-flood world, no doubling figure could be conservative enough. You're not just growing a new human population, after all - you're restarting a world's ecology.

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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 11 of 56 (53831)
09-04-2003 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by a visitor
09-01-2003 11:33 AM


Ive been searching through sites and was wondering when exactly was the tower of babel made, i have my own thoughts on it but i was wondering what you guys think and why you gave the date you did, thx.
Well this is an easy question to answer! The tower of Babel never existed. A story about said tower is in the book of christian mythology called the bible, but it is more of a just-so tale about how the different languages come about and is not to be taken seriously or literally.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 56 (53833)
09-04-2003 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by kjsimons
09-04-2003 9:23 AM


it is more of a just-so tale about how the different languages come about and is not to be taken seriously or literally.
In particular it's a story to explain how languages come about to people who had yet to notice that language changes over time. Much as Genesis is a story to explain how different species came about to a people who had yet to notice that species change over time.
Very interesting parallel. Perhaps a new anti-creationist tack? "Linguistics falsifies the Tower of Babel account." Honestly I have yet to hear this issue debated by creationists. Maybe we can break new ground on this?

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 Message 14 by Zhimbo, posted 09-04-2003 9:49 AM crashfrog has not replied

kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 13 of 56 (53835)
09-04-2003 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
09-04-2003 9:29 AM


Very interesting parallel. Perhaps a new anti-creationist tack? "Linguistics falsifies the Tower of Babel account." Honestly I have yet to hear this issue debated by creationists. Maybe we can break new ground on this?
There is an excellent book called "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond which has a chapter about the migration of certain languages. The whole book is pretty interesting. I haven't read up much on language development and dispersement, but I've read enough to glean that most languages can be traced back to non-biblical origins.

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Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 14 of 56 (53839)
09-04-2003 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
09-04-2003 9:29 AM


quote:
Very interesting parallel. Perhaps a new anti-creationist tack? "Linguistics falsifies the Tower of Babel account."
It wouldn't be entirely new ground: Tower of Babel: The Evidence against the New Creationism by Robert Pennock takes just that approach...or a similar approach. He makes use of examples from linguistics to show how we can determine with great certainty certain aspects of the history of language, under the assumption that most readers don't have any particular prejudices against linguistics. He then shows that similar strategies apply to determining the history and inter-relatedness of life.
[This message has been edited by Zhimbo, 09-04-2003]

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defenderofthefaith
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 56 (53983)
09-05-2003 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Jack
09-04-2003 7:50 AM


I cannot find which precisely were the clean ones (before the Flood). Your original question was how they would have enough clean animals; but God specifically says that they can eat any moving thing upon the earth - Genesis 9:3.

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