The War On Terror Will End When.........

so pointing out where you are factually wrong and have misread someone's posts is now a not sigificant contribution? And you of have ignored why the present threat is comparable to the dark ages, that being: the radical islamic terrorists are blinded by their veiw of their religion and are willing to kill and die in it's name, much like the various other religious conflicts in the past including the ones christianity was involved in. I think it would also be appreciated if you wouldn't create strawmen like asking Rahvin: when all he mentioned was Iraqi youth turning away from Islam.

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soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

Please, Buz, explain in detail why xian behavior during the Dark Ages is different from Islamic fundamentalist behavior today. In detail.That is, I fail to see that xians during the Dark Ages weren't "blinded by their view of religion and willing to kill and die in it's (sic) name".Saint Augustine’s doctrine cognite intrare (“force them to convert”)?Indiscriminate violence during the Dark Ages taking inter-xian slaughter to new extremes -- two thirds of the xian population of Europe being slaughtered?Your detailed response?

This is a general request to participants of this thread to please respond to the substance of what is said, rather than addressing your feelings about what was said or the person saying it.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Doc and Mgirl: The thread is about ending the present war on terror. I have explained in detail the difference in this war on terror in which there is no defense against the indiscriminate bombing tactics etc and the Dark Age oppression perpetrated by the popes and bishops of Vatican City. This is not a matter of knife & sword weaponry. If you two don't agree, fine, but I've responded to your points with full explanations of my position.Imo, your job is to refute my points as to specifically how the present war on terror, given the terroristic methodology, can be ended other than the way which I've cited.Furthermore, you would need to disqualify the prophecies of both Mohammed and the Bible as being significant relative to what we are observing relative to the gathering of the nations against Israel in the ME and the significance of the restoration of the nation of Israel in light of Biblical prophecy.As well, you would need to disqualify the prophet Mohammed's prophecy that Islam would imerge as the major world power in the latter days via Jihad etc.Your only response so far has been what I see as a red herring. The Dark Age despots, i.e. popes and bishops of Vatican City were limited to sword technology which was capable of being overthrown/overpowered by superior forces.As well, the Reformation which was also a factor in ending the Dark Age oppression was not effected by an unlimited number of militants supported by a number of fundalistic nations able to deliver deadly terror wherever they chose with powerful explosives. Nor were thousands of militants of the Dark Ages willing to expend their own lives as suicidal destroying weapons.If you can refute the above and explain your own unique doable end to the present war on terror, then your arguments will begin to become significant to the topic of this thread. Please explain the specifics of how the point you're trying to make here equals what we observe today relative to ending the present war on terror.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

1. Unlike the Dark Ages, the forces of Islamic Jihad today are making alarming progress into nuclear weaponry.2. Unlike the Dark Ages these Jihadists also have the blackmail leverage of much of the global oil supply which deters the Western powers who need the oil to retaliate. This is especially significant with Saudi Arabia who is awash in oil cash, much of which they are sending to the US and Europe to build Trojan horse mosques and finance Jihad worldwide wherever they choose. This, btw, is a major difference in the present war on terror and the Dark Ages.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Buzsaw responds to me:

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Rrhain, your false implication here is that the war in Iraq is what comprises "global terrorism."

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GAH!Did you read any of what I wrote?Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with terrorism except indirectly: It is a perfect symbol that terrorists use to recruit terrorists.If we were to leave Iraq, terrorism would probably decrease due to the loss of that symbol, not because of any change in the violence level in Iraq.

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What about Israel and the stated Jihadist agenda as supported and advocated by heads of state and Islamic clerics worldwide?

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What about it? Where did I hint that Iraq was the center of terrorism? I've been arguing against that claim for five years. That's the argument of Bush which I have denied from day one.Have you seriously not been paying attention?What part of "it isn't 'global terrorism' now" do you not understand? You quoted it, Buzsaw. Did you not even bother to read what you quoted? My entire point is that Iraq is in the midst of a civil war, not a terrorist war. If it isn't "terrorism" when we're not the one's being shot at, then it isn't "terrorism" now.

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What about the Jihadist agenda/ambitions for Europe, Great Britain, and the Americas as they work to infiltrate our governments to subvert, intimidate via violence and conquer?

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HAH!You really think they exist? You really think that the 1.3 billion Muslims in the world (more than the Catholics) are out to "infiltrate our governments to subvert, intimidate via violence, and conquer"? You really believe that?Time for a creationist moment:What would it take for you to be shown wrong? How could anybody show you that there is no Great Islamic Conspiracy to Rule the World (C)?Hint: The fact that there are terrorists who are Muslim who wish for global domination is not an actual response. There are terrorists who are Christian who wish for global domination. You're not afraid of them, are you? So what it is about Muslims that makes you suddenly take leave of your senses?And what would it take for you to be convinced that there is no monster under the bed?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Buzsaw writes:

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Unlike the Dark Ages, the forces of Islamic Jihad today are making alarming progress into nuclear weaponry.

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Oh, really? Who are these "forces of Islamic Jihad"? Be specific.Iraq was never a "force of Islamic Jihad" and as we have been repeatedly reminded, had no nuclear weapons program since the first Gulf War.Iran? As we have been shown, Iran hasn't had a nuclear program for five years.Pakistan? WE ARE THE ONES WHO GAVE THEM THE NUKES!So exactly where do you find evidence that "the forces of Islamic Jihad today are making alarming progress into nuclear weaponry"?Be specific.

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Unlike the Dark Ages these Jihadists also have the blackmail leverage of much of the global oil supply which deters the Western powers who need the oil to retaliate.

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Irrelevant. The question is not whether there are different techniques being used for fanaticism. The question is, and I quote: What does the fact that they have "our oil under their sand" have anything to do with fanaticism?I should point out that the Muslims at the time had the blackmail leverage of much of the holy cities of Christianity which spurred the Western powers who needed the holy cities. The specific means of the blackmail is immaterial.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Rrhain, your statement appeared to read that since you think Iraq wasn't global terrorism there's no global terrorism. That's the way I read you.1. Global terrorism doesn't mean every single nation on earth is being terrorized. It means there's conspirators to effect terrorism wherever on earth the terrorists chose to target to achieve their goal which with Jihad is to dominate the globe.2. Whether or not Iraq was invaded Iraq contributed to global terrorism by funding and supporting Jihad against Israel as funds were given to suicide bombers by the Iraqi government. They also refused to allow inspection by the world body to whom they said they would allow in.

Lie.Guess where the UN weapons inspectors were at the exact same moment Bush was telling us they weren't being allowed to do their jobs?The were in Iraq, performing inspections. It was a direct lie, as witnessed by the inspectors themselves.Why shouldn't we dismiss the rest of your insanity as meaningless Faux News propaganda as well? You havent given any evidence or support for your assertions that the only possible end to the "War on Terror" is fulfillment of an End Times prophecy. You've ignored rebuttals concerning the prophecies of other religions. You've dismissed arguments regarding alternate possibilities without addressing them in the least.So far as I can tell, Buz, you're a rightwing nutjob conspiracy-theorist with a hardcore religious-warfare bent.

Buzsaw responds to me:

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Rrhain, your statement appeared to read that since you think Iraq wasn't global terrorism there's no global terrorism.

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Huh? Show me the direct quote where I even hinted at such a thing. My entire post of Message 25 was Iraq this, Iraq that, and how Iraq doesn't have anything to do with "global terrorism." In fact, I specifically made a distinction between Al Qaeda and Iraq: My guess is that you were referring to the sentence immediately preceding that one: But what on earth did you think I meant when I said, "there"? Luxemborg?Of course not. I was referring to Iraq. The violence in Iraq is not "global terrorism." It's a civil war.How on earth can that possibly be interpreted to mean that there is no terrorism?Perhaps you were referring to Message 23 where I said: But again, how does this mean there is no global terrorism? It simply points out that what is going on in Iraq is no more "global terrorism" than what was going on in Ireland or what happened in the US during the Civil War. That hardly means there is no global terrorism. It simply means that those particular events aren't part of it.

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Global terrorism doesn't mean every single nation on earth is being terrorized.

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I never said it was. But, you are avoiding my direct questions to you:What would it take for you to be shown wrong? How could anybody show you that there is no Great Islamic Conspiracy to Rule the World (C)?Hint: The fact that there are terrorists who are Muslim who wish for global domination is not an actual response. There are terrorists who are Christian who wish for global domination. You're not afraid of them, are you? So what it is about Muslims that makes you suddenly take leave of your senses?And what would it take for you to be convinced that there is no monster under the bed?Do you not understand the point? You said, and I quote: You're intimating that the world is under credible and significant threat. It isn't. That doesn't mean there isn't terrorism. It simply means that it isn't nearly as dramatic as you are making out.

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Whether or not Iraq was invaded Iraq contributed to global terrorism by funding and supporting Jihad against Israel as funds were given to suicide bombers by the Iraqi government.

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Just as we did to the various guerilla organizations in Central Ameica. I guess we're terrorists, too.Note, this doesn't mean there aren't terrorists, but it does mean that you don't understand your own argument: The desire to destroy Israel is not an attempt to "dominate the globe."

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They also refused to allow inspection by the world body to whom they said they would allow in.

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Yes and no. Yes, the inspectors were kicked out, but then they were let back in. The inspectors were in Iraq all during our march to war. Blix was literally BEGGING Bush to back off and let him do his job.On the very day that Bush announced the invasion, the weapons inspectors in Iraq were destroying some missiles as they had too long of a range. They were shown doing so on international television. The invasion couldn't proceed because we had to pull the inspectors out.Where on earth did you get this lie that there were no inspectors in Iraq?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

That's a good point, Rrhain.I'd just like to add that Buz has yet to provide evidence for this alleged conspiracy.And, Buz.Don't go quoting the Quran.I could just as easily quote the Bible.And don't point to terrorist acts in Europe or America.Individual acts of terrorism do not a global conspiracy make.There are South American terrorists, there are xian terrorists, there are Asian terrorists, there are Islamic terrorists. They blow s*** up. And?You need to provide EVIDENCE of a GLOBAL conspiracy.

Whoa there buddy.The Sunnis and Shia lived together in Iraq for decades without fighting. Sunni and Shia live across the Middle East in peace. Intersect marriages are common.The reason that we are seeing such serious sectarian fighting in Iraq is because of who has control of the government. Who controls the government controls the oil. Who controls the oil controls Iraq. The fight really has nothing to do with the minute differences between Shia and Sunni. It has everything to do with secular economics.

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2. Whether or not Iraq was invaded Iraq contributed to global terrorism by funding and supporting Jihad against Israel as funds were given to suicide bombers by the Iraqi government. They also refused to allow inspection by the world body to whom they said they would allow in.

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Seriously? You're arguing that Iraq deserved to be invaded due to payments to suicide bombers? Did you happen to notice that these suicide bombings happened well before Saddam started making payments and kept happing after Saddam was removed? Furthermore, if that is good enough criteria for removing a regime, then we should invade Russia as the terrorism they have been conducting in Chechnya makes Saddam look like a girl scout. They leveled Grozny killing thousands of innocent civilians. Your hypocrisy is showing.And we had inspectors on the ground.

I gotta say, good point, OC.But Buz isn't going to buy the whole "Ruskies are terrorists" thing. Grozny - WikipediaSee?Them Ruskies is stompin muslims.Obviously, they's a part of the Islamic Global Conspiracy®.Therefore, them Ruskies had every right to blast them women and children to smithereens.

Rahven, if and when you ever decide to leave off the personal insult and meanspirited responses, I'll be more apt to debate you.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.