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Author
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Topic: Proofs of Evolution: A Mediocre Debate (Faith, robinrohan and their invitees)
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
But you've been told by many that the only way to avoid an eternity of misery is to give yourself to Jesus Christ. Refusing that is a different kind of foolishness. It's not based on bad judgment or lack of knowledge. You have the knowledge, you've been told, the people who have told you have your best interests at heart.
I have a problem with this. I consider the view of the average person--say, me--to be similar to the man who took the wrong job by mistake. Yes, I have been "told," but I have also been told many other things that suggest the exact opposite. I've been told that we evolved, for example. Who to believe? In other words, my foolishness, if such it is, is an innocent mistake. Unfortunately it isn't. It isn't only Calvinism that says so either. But making a case for it isn't easy. In answer to your next post:
Just keep in mind that I do not (and never did) have any intention of insulting you or your beliefs. On the contrary. OK. I'll work on it. Keeping it in mind I mean. I think I *am* hypersensitive. It's so rare to have made an internet friend of a nonChristian or nonconservative. I'm so used to the insults, and normally I don't care, I can give as good as I get as you know, but I don't *want* to insult *you,* teach. In fact that COULD account for the "sluggishness," as you suggest. Too much niceness is a bad thing.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 242 of 295 (279734)
01-17-2006 5:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 241 by Faith
01-17-2006 4:39 PM
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
In fact that COULD account for the "sluggishness," as you suggest. Too much niceness is a bad thing. Yes, in a debate. Go ahead and give me hell. If I'm a fool, I need to know about it. You can even get personal if you want to and talk about what a pathetic individual I truly am.
It's so rare to have made an internet friend of a nonChristian or nonconservative. It's rare and also interesting. "friend"--I like that word. One has so few friends. ABE: edited a la Faith's method. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-17-2006 05:07 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 241 by Faith, posted 01-17-2006 4:39 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 243 by Faith, posted 01-17-2006 8:50 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
Go ahead and give me hell. If I'm a fool, I need to know about it. You can even get personal if you want to and talk about what a pathetic individual I truly am. That's against the Forum Guidelines, RR. This message has been edited by Faith, 01-18-2006 02:44 PM
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 244 of 295 (279872)
01-18-2006 1:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
01-17-2006 8:50 PM
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
delete. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-18-2006 01:41 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 243 by Faith, posted 01-17-2006 8:50 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 245 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 1:07 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
delete This message has been edited by Faith, 01-18-2006 05:58 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 244 by robinrohan, posted 01-18-2006 1:02 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 246 of 295 (279887)
01-18-2006 2:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
01-17-2006 8:50 PM
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
delete This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-18-2006 02:03 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 243 by Faith, posted 01-17-2006 8:50 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 247 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 2:34 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
deleted This message has been edited by Faith, 01-18-2006 02:43 PM
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 248 of 295 (279891)
01-18-2006 2:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 247 by Faith
01-18-2006 2:34 PM
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
delete This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-18-2006 01:40 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-18-2006 01:40 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 247 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 2:34 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 249 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 2:39 PM | | robinrohan has not replied | | | Message 250 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 3:00 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
deleted. This message has been edited by Faith, 01-18-2006 02:43 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 248 by robinrohan, posted 01-18-2006 2:37 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
delete This message has been edited by Faith, 01-18-2006 05:58 PM
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 251 of 295 (279900)
01-18-2006 3:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 250 by Faith
01-18-2006 3:00 PM
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
delete This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-18-2006 03:52 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 250 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 3:00 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 252 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 4:04 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
delete This message has been edited by Faith, 01-18-2006 05:58 PM
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 253 of 295 (279906)
01-18-2006 4:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 252 by Faith
01-18-2006 4:04 PM
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
delete This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-18-2006 03:52 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 252 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 4:04 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 254 by Faith, posted 01-18-2006 6:21 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Foolishness and Immorality
This message has been edited by Faith, 01-18-2006 08:12 PM This message has been edited by Faith, 01-27-2006 02:04 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 253 by robinrohan, posted 01-18-2006 4:20 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Materialism and Evolution
it always comes back to thought, mind, etc., doesn't it. That's the "stuff" God is "made of."
quote:
The theory of evolution, I would think, would require a belief in materialism, since it's difficult to imagine a type of reality called "mentality"--that stuff of which God is made, you, Faith, say--evolving out of another type of reality called physicality.
Except, theistic evolutionists could make a case that if the whole thing was set in motion by God, then that accounts for the arising of mentality at the end of the process. I don't know if they do make this case however. It's a thought that just occurred to me. In a purely materialistic evolutionism the idea that mind could emerge always hits me as ridiculous altogether. But it's the sort of thing people answer by saying Well that's what happened, so it must be possible.{In other words, circular reasoning}.
So there's nothing but physicality. What does this mean? I think it means that there is nothing but automatic reactions to stimuli, which is no different from water running downhill or, in a more complicated way, a bush leaning toward the sun. It doesn't seem that way to us. It seems to us that we have will, and that we perceive truths, such as mathematical truth, and these operations are not caused physically but are the result of logical, incorporeal thought. Can you really believe this though? That our minds are mere illusion, byproducts of physical processes? All there is to support that idea is conjectural statements such as you are reproducing here. How it MIGHT be so. There is no actual evidence.
This atmosphere of incorporeality is due to a shortcoming in the brain, which is not good at "reflecting" itself. (I was reading this book about the brain some time ago, but didn't get too far. "Reflection" is an important word in brain-talk as is "plasticity," which means that different parts of the brain have multiple functions and that different parts of the brain operate collectively to do something). So how is this aura of incorporeality produced? Some say the brain is a computer-like device. But not only that. Some say that what matters is the algorithm, the set of instructions, not the medium through which these instructions are carried out. Computers use electrical charges, but according to this theory, you could use anything, such as in the following example:
All the operations that you do on a computer could be done in exactly the same way by giving a team of people written instructions
for moving eggs around in a football field full of egg cartons, though of course it would take longer. (By the way, a football field full of egg cartons has about one megabyte of RAM)--Matt Carmill So if you could get enough eggs and people to move them around and just the right set of instructions, you could produce "consciousness." If all that example is doing is aping what computers do -- like a graphic illustration of the earliest computers which required huge rooms to house them, and processed millions of manila cards with holes punched in them -- why take it out to such an awkward example? Do you believe that computers could produce consciousness? And what would you expect to be the evidence that consciousness had been produced? Or have I missed the whole point of your example? I admit I'm not following your thought very well. What is it that convinces you that the mind is illusory? Just the habit of thinking in terms of physicality as science so persistently does? This message has been edited by Faith, 01-20-2006 08:17 AM
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