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Author Topic:   Can the Christian God exist without the Bible?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1279 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 31 of 106 (245627)
09-22-2005 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
09-22-2005 12:18 AM


Re: From a human's perspective
ok now you're confusing me.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 09-22-2005 12:18 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 09-22-2005 12:32 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 32 of 106 (245629)
09-22-2005 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by macaroniandcheese
09-22-2005 12:23 AM


Re: From a human's perspective
ok now you're confusing me.

How so? Don't all the names of God you listed refer to the ONE God? So they are all merely the names used by different cultures for the same thing. As a Christian I believe only the Biblical account of God is accurate, because it was given by God Himself, and is intended for all people too, but I don't deny that other religions and peoples have SOME sense of God. So we are not talking about different Gods, just different conceptions of the same One.

This message has been edited by Faith, 09-22-2005 12:36 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-22-2005 12:23 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1279 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


(1)
Message 33 of 106 (245632)
09-22-2005 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
09-22-2005 12:32 AM


Re: From a human's perspective
well that's a rather novel thing for a christian to say...

you may yet show promise.


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 Message 32 by Faith, posted 09-22-2005 12:32 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Philip
Member (Idle past 2074 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 34 of 106 (246639)
09-26-2005 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
09-21-2005 6:31 PM


Re: Gospel as "according to the Scriptures"
Please elaborate.
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jar
Member
Posts: 28437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 35 of 106 (246648)
09-26-2005 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Philip
09-26-2005 6:34 PM


Re: Gospel as "according to the Scriptures"
At the time Corinthians was written, there was no Bible, none of the Gospels were yet written, it was still hundreds of years before any attempt at a Canon would be made.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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 Message 34 by Philip, posted 09-26-2005 6:34 PM Philip has responded

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Philip
Member (Idle past 2074 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 36 of 106 (246815)
09-27-2005 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
09-26-2005 7:33 PM


Re: Gospel (Christ) as "according to the Scriptures"
Paul had some of the *NT* and *OT* parchments; and his early writings though unfinished seemed *Bible* enough, even consistent with the books that followed: e.g.,
Romans (perhaps his last epistle) and Revelation.

Overall, I speculate that the Holy Bible and Scriptures differ slightly in meaning; but don’t want to strain knats or swallow camels on this rabbit trail.

You really think the apostle was referring to something other than the *scriptures* when he stated Christ’s death for our sins (AKA eternal sacrificial atonement) “according to the scriptures”, his burial, and his resurrection the 3rd day “according to the scriptures” (1Cor15.3).

Admittedly the sinful *natural man* in me is filled with scorn for the Bible, but another part of my being sees the Bible/Scriptures as impeccably perfect, timeless, indestructible, and extremely powerful beneficence.


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Ben!
Member (Idle past 973 days)
Posts: 1154
From: San Diego, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 37 of 106 (246924)
09-28-2005 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Phat
09-21-2005 3:37 PM


Re: Do not think higher of yourselves than ye ought
hu•mil•i•ty \hyü-"mi-l€-tÈ, yü-\ n : the quality or state of being humble

This part didn't help much, because I would just say "OK, so then what do you mean by humble?" :)

It seems that humble means the willingness to give up any worldly possession, including your own life. This would be resolved with "specialness" in that we're special in the world... but we must be willing to sacrifice any thing in the world. So humble means understanding that our "special" quality is of this world, and when it comes to metaphysical thoughts, it has no bearing at all.

That seems to ring a bell. Let me know if I got it wrong though.

Thanks!
Ben


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Faith
Member
Posts: 23978
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 38 of 106 (246944)
09-28-2005 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by macaroniandcheese
09-22-2005 12:49 AM


Re: From a human's perspective
well that's a rather novel thing for a christian to say...
you may yet show promise.

I'm not saying they are right about the one God though, just that they have some sense of the one God and have a name for Him, so that all those different names don't refer to different Gods. There IS only one God and some peoples have preserved some vague sense of His existence and nature despite our fallenness.


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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 2514 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 39 of 106 (246948)
09-28-2005 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by macaroniandcheese
09-20-2005 6:37 PM


but the bible defines what god is. so without that definiton many peoples definition of god does not exist, and thus neither does god
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jar
Member
Posts: 28437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 40 of 106 (246955)
09-28-2005 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by ohnhai
09-28-2005 11:37 AM


God, if GOD exists...
does so whether or not anyone knows of Her or can describe It. The existence of an object is not dependant on it's being known.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1279 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 41 of 106 (246971)
09-28-2005 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
09-28-2005 11:59 AM


Re: God, if GOD exists...
if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it...
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Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 42 of 106 (247179)
09-29-2005 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by macaroniandcheese
09-28-2005 1:17 PM


Re: God, if GOD exists...
NIV writes:

Luke 4:20-21--Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, 21 and he began by saying to them, "Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."

So...if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it..."Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing."

What I mean is: If the scripture was fullfilled, would it be fullfilled whether or not anyone heard it?

NIV writes:

Rev 2:7--He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

What does it mean to hear? Hear what? And about this "overcoming"? What are we overcoming? Any ideas?


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Legend
Member (Idle past 2358 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 43 of 106 (248019)
10-01-2005 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jar
09-28-2005 11:59 AM


Re: God, if GOD exists...
if a God exists who wants us to be saved by accepting his son as our saviour

and...

he's given us no way (or a corrupted way) of finding out about his son

then..

A God who wants us to be saved by accepting his son as our saviour cannot exist (by definition).

GOD may still be out there all right but it's not the NT God.


"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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 Message 40 by jar, posted 09-28-2005 11:59 AM jar has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 28437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 44 of 106 (248022)
10-01-2005 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Legend
10-01-2005 7:10 PM


Re: God, if GOD exists...
Could be.

But IMHO the Bible is but a work of Man, filled with all the imperfections of Man, with all the limits of Man.

The Bible itself is not bad, but the interpretations of most Christians are.

The limits are not of GOD but of Man.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Replies to this message:
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Legend
Member (Idle past 2358 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 45 of 106 (248308)
10-02-2005 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by jar
10-01-2005 7:17 PM


Re: God, if GOD exists...
but can't an omnipotent GOD communicate with us in a clear and unambiguous manner ?

If I can write a document that communicates something in a clear and concise manner why can't She ?


"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 10-01-2005 7:17 PM jar has responded

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