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Author Topic:   Can the Christian God exist without the Bible?
jar
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Posts: 28838
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 91 of 106 (673362)
09-18-2012 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Hawkins
09-18-2012 3:08 PM


Re: unworthy gods.
On the other hand, that usually is based on your own interpretation and mostly your own intelligence which you don't have the capability to doubt about.

This can be told even from your own wording,

"you are trying to market"

don't assume so! In the end, it's your own life which only you would care. If you don't no one will.

HUH?

I'm sorry but that is simply nonsense.

Of course I have the capability to doubt, and of course I am limited to my own intelligence just as anyone else is limited to their own intelligence.

And when you say "don't assume so! In the end, it's your own life which only you would care. If you don't no one will." it simply supports my position.

What you are marketing is what Jesus preached against in Luke 4 and the position of the Goats in Matthew 25.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 3:08 PM Hawkins has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:37 PM jar has responded

  
Hawkins
Member
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 92 of 106 (673363)
09-18-2012 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by jar
09-18-2012 4:33 PM


Re: unworthy gods.
What you are marketing is what Jesus preached against in Luke 4 and the position of the Goats in Matthew 25
===========================

The idea of preaching is to let the information flow such that one can make a decision.

In Christianity, the Shepherd will only call upon His sheep. There's no need to market to the wolves or goats as His sheep will recognize His voice to make a return.

Again, no one knows what would happen after death. It remains your own responsibility to choose wisely. No one else cares more about your life than you yourself do.

Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.

Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by jar, posted 09-18-2012 4:33 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 09-18-2012 4:45 PM Hawkins has responded

  
ringo
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Posts: 13025
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 93 of 106 (673366)
09-18-2012 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Hawkins
09-18-2012 4:30 PM


Hawkins writes:

The two option is to leave by recognize its chance, or to stay as a belief that it's a hoax. Waiting for evidence is not an option because you have only one life to loose.


But waiting at a reasonably safe distance is an option. It's the only sensible option. It's the option you would choose. You'd wait at a safe distance until there was some evidence that there really was a bomb. If you waited there for three months and it still hadn't gone off, you'd move back into your house. You would not continue "playing it safe" forever. You wouldn't give up your house forever based on the word of some witness.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:30 PM Hawkins has responded

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 Message 94 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:45 PM ringo has responded

  
Hawkins
Member
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 94 of 106 (673368)
09-18-2012 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by ringo
09-18-2012 4:42 PM


But waiting at a reasonably safe distance is an option.
======================================

You are right in the case of the analogy. But in reality, you can die at any moment. You evaluation is only based on a rough statistic. Moreover, there is a point where your decision may have already been made subconsciously. This may be the case of those who never try to "wait at a safe distance".

Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 09-18-2012 4:42 PM ringo has responded

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 Message 99 by ringo, posted 09-18-2012 5:02 PM Hawkins has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28838
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 95 of 106 (673369)
09-18-2012 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Hawkins
09-18-2012 4:37 PM


Re: unworthy gods.
Sorry but again, you are marketing only the "What's in it for me" Christianity.

That is simply too small and worthless for me to consider.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:37 PM Hawkins has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:47 PM jar has responded

  
Hawkins
Member
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 96 of 106 (673372)
09-18-2012 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
09-18-2012 4:45 PM


Re: unworthy gods.
Sorry but again, you are marketing only the "What's in it for me" Christianity.
=============================================

I am trying to preach what I think the Bible is saying which at the same time I assume that you misunderstood.

That is simply too small and worthless for me to consider.
=============================================

Hmm, who cares? That's the point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 09-18-2012 4:45 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 09-18-2012 4:54 PM Hawkins has responded
 Message 100 by Theodoric, posted 09-18-2012 5:16 PM Hawkins has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28838
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 97 of 106 (673378)
09-18-2012 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Hawkins
09-18-2012 4:47 PM


Re: unworthy gods.
Who cares what?

If GOD exists and if there is an afterlife and if there is a heaven I am quite sure there will be far more atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Taoists, Wicaans, Satanists, followers of Confucius, Mencius, Buddha and animists then Christians sitting at the table.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:47 PM Hawkins has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:56 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Hawkins
Member
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 98 of 106 (673380)
09-18-2012 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by jar
09-18-2012 4:54 PM


Re: unworthy gods.
Who cares what?
=============

Who cares about your comment that "it's worthless for me to consider". No one cares, it's your own life in the end.

================
If GOD exists and if there is an afterlife and if there is a heaven I am quite sure there will be far more atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Taoists, Wicaans, Satanists, followers of Confucius, Mencius, Buddha and animists then Christians sitting at the table.
================

Again, if that's your belief so be it. No one cares.

Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.

Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by jar, posted 09-18-2012 4:54 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13025
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 99 of 106 (673381)
09-18-2012 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Hawkins
09-18-2012 4:45 PM


Hawkins writes:

But in reality, you can die at any moment.


Pascal's wager, eh? If you don't bet, you can't win. The problem with that approach is that there's only one way to win and lots of ways to lose. If you bet on the Christian God, Allah might punish you. You might take shelter from the bomb in your house and get shot by your neighbour for trespassing. Unless you have some evidence of real danger, you might be exposing yourself to other dangers.

Edited by ringo, : Spellig.


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 Message 94 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:45 PM Hawkins has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
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Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 100 of 106 (673383)
09-18-2012 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Hawkins
09-18-2012 4:47 PM


Re: unworthy gods.
I am trying to preach

Alas, we get to the gist of of all your gibberish.

So we can all ignore you now as you are not here for serious debate. You are solely here to preach so are not worth anyone's time to engage.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Hawkins, posted 09-18-2012 4:47 PM Hawkins has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 101 of 106 (793621)
11-02-2016 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
09-21-2005 9:11 AM


Re: No Bible? Know God. Know whatImean?
jar writes:

GOD, the creator, exists or does not exist. The Christian God, or any God, can never be more than some minor reflection of GOD. Religion is no more than a creation of man and can never equal the actuality.
The Map is not the Territory.

In this old topic, I am reminded of what our old admin Ben said:

Ben writes:

Can the Christian God be known, in all meanings of the word (i.e. experience in 'meeting' God, in knowing all about God, in knowing what God expects of you, etc), without the Bible?

I maintain that GOD can be known through Jesus Christ. Critics may point out that my belief originates from the writings and bias of humans.

The counterargument is that scripture is inspired by God and not by the motive, means, and opportunity of human authors.

Moose writes:

At a basic level humans transmit ideas through time by storing them in some physical medium (books, cds, brains etc). The Bible is just a medium of storage.

Galatians 1:11 writes:

I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin.


2 Peter 1:21 writes:

21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


jar writes:

What is considered Scripture will depend on which sub-set of Christianity you happen to belong to.

So are you saying in essense that even if Scripture came directly from GOD, humans would still pick and choose what they wanted to believe?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 09-21-2005 9:11 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 11-02-2016 7:32 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 102 of 106 (793622)
11-02-2016 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
08-02-2012 1:45 PM


In Perpetuity
ringo writes:

A "perpetual Jesus" who lived forever, sitting down with publicans and sinners of every generation would be more effective than a dusty book.

Perhaps we are extensions of Him. In essence, out of each generation, a small group of people not only sit down with the publicans and sinners but they feed the hungry, clothe the naked and comfort the sorrowful .

You say that doing the works proves the inner presence. I say that while you are right, inner wisdom results from prayer, study, meditation and communion.

If you did good works on behalf of Joes Bar & Grill, the message you were selling would be quite different from the message coming from someone who advertised personal relationship with God versus simply warm fuzzies and full bellies around a bar.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 08-02-2012 1:45 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 11-02-2016 4:42 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13025
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 103 of 106 (793623)
11-02-2016 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
11-02-2016 4:38 PM


Re: In Perpetuity
Phat writes:

I say that while you are right, inner wisdom results from prayer, study, meditation and communion.


Where's the value in "inner wisdom"?

Phat writes:

If you did good works on behalf of Joes Bar & Grill, the message you were selling would be quite different from the message coming from someone who advertised personal relationship with God versus simply warm fuzzies and full bellies around a bar.


Why do good works "on behalf" of anybody? Why not just do them because they're good? Why does there have to be a "message" at all except to do good?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 11-02-2016 4:38 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28838
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 104 of 106 (793633)
11-02-2016 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Phat
11-02-2016 4:15 PM


Re: No Bible? Know God. Know whatImean?
Phat writes:

I maintain that GOD can be known through Jesus Christ. Critics may point out that my belief originates from the writings and bias of humans.

The counterargument is that scripture is inspired by God and not by the motive, means, and opportunity of human authors.

Come on Phat. If it were not for the Bible you would have never even heard of Jesus. And despite you maintaining the fiction, you have never explained how anyone can know anything through Jesus Christ or even what the hell that means?

Phat writes:

So are you saying in essense that even if Scripture came directly from GOD, humans would still pick and choose what they wanted to believe?

Not exactly although ALL of the evidence shows that is just a truism, what I am saying is that if Scripture came directly from God, God could not get the story straight or tell the truth or be consistent or hide its ignorance or even pretend to be fair or just or moral.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 11-02-2016 4:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Phat, posted 11-03-2016 8:28 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 105 of 106 (793662)
11-03-2016 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by jar
11-02-2016 7:32 PM


Learning On The Job
jar writes:

Come on Phat. If it were not for the Bible you would have never even heard of Jesus.


  • How did people hear of Him before there was a Bible?

  • Do you believe that GOD raised Him from the dead?

  • What sense does it make for a charge to be doing for others without an inner transformation?
    Why would you want to be the same old cuss you always were?

  • When Jesus said "feed my sheep" was He only talking about taters and beef stew?
    What other ways might a creative servant enlighten you? Would you resist an invitation to kneel at the altar with them? Would the old cuss want to keep his own free will?
    what I am saying is that if Scripture came directly from God, God could not get the story straight or tell the truth or be consistent or hide its ignorance or even pretend to be fair or just or moral.
    Do you see God as a bumbling Deity learning on the job? How could such a fallible Being create all seen and unseen?

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 104 by jar, posted 11-02-2016 7:32 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 106 by jar, posted 11-03-2016 9:30 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
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