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Author | Topic: Can the Christian God exist without the Bible? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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On the other hand, that usually is based on your own interpretation and mostly your own intelligence which you don't have the capability to doubt about. This can be told even from your own wording, "you are trying to market" don't assume so! In the end, it's your own life which only you would care. If you don't no one will. HUH? I'm sorry but that is simply nonsense. Of course I have the capability to doubt, and of course I am limited to my own intelligence just as anyone else is limited to their own intelligence. And when you say "don't assume so! In the end, it's your own life which only you would care. If you don't no one will." it simply supports my position. What you are marketing is what Jesus preached against in Luke 4 and the position of the Goats in Matthew 25.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
What you are marketing is what Jesus preached against in Luke 4 and the position of the Goats in Matthew 25
=========================== The idea of preaching is to let the information flow such that one can make a decision. In Christianity, the Shepherd will only call upon His sheep. There's no need to market to the wolves or goats as His sheep will recognize His voice to make a return. Again, no one knows what would happen after death. It remains your own responsibility to choose wisely. No one else cares more about your life than you yourself do. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hawkins writes:
But waiting at a reasonably safe distance is an option. It's the only sensible option. It's the option you would choose. You'd wait at a safe distance until there was some evidence that there really was a bomb. If you waited there for three months and it still hadn't gone off, you'd move back into your house. You would not continue "playing it safe" forever. You wouldn't give up your house forever based on the word of some witness.
The two option is to leave by recognize its chance, or to stay as a belief that it's a hoax. Waiting for evidence is not an option because you have only one life to loose.
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
But waiting at a reasonably safe distance is an option.
====================================== You are right in the case of the analogy. But in reality, you can die at any moment. You evaluation is only based on a rough statistic. Moreover, there is a point where your decision may have already been made subconsciously. This may be the case of those who never try to "wait at a safe distance". Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Sorry but again, you are marketing only the "What's in it for me" Christianity.
That is simply too small and worthless for me to consider.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
Sorry but again, you are marketing only the "What's in it for me" Christianity.
============================================= I am trying to preach what I think the Bible is saying which at the same time I assume that you misunderstood. That is simply too small and worthless for me to consider.============================================= Hmm, who cares? That's the point.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Who cares what?
If GOD exists and if there is an afterlife and if there is a heaven I am quite sure there will be far more atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Taoists, Wicaans, Satanists, followers of Confucius, Mencius, Buddha and animists then Christians sitting at the table. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Hawkins Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 150 From: Hong Kong Joined: |
Who cares what?
============= Who cares about your comment that "it's worthless for me to consider". No one cares, it's your own life in the end. ================If GOD exists and if there is an afterlife and if there is a heaven I am quite sure there will be far more atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Taoists, Wicaans, Satanists, followers of Confucius, Mencius, Buddha and animists then Christians sitting at the table. ================ Again, if that's your belief so be it. No one cares. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given. Edited by Hawkins, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hawkins writes:
Pascal's wager, eh? If you don't bet, you can't win. The problem with that approach is that there's only one way to win and lots of ways to lose. If you bet on the Christian God, Allah might punish you. You might take shelter from the bomb in your house and get shot by your neighbour for trespassing. Unless you have some evidence of real danger, you might be exposing yourself to other dangers. But in reality, you can die at any moment. Edited by ringo, : Spellig.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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I am trying to preach Alas, we get to the gist of of all your gibberish. So we can all ignore you now as you are not here for serious debate. You are solely here to preach so are not worth anyone's time to engage.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: GOD, the creator, exists or does not exist. The Christian God, or any God, can never be more than some minor reflection of GOD. Religion is no more than a creation of man and can never equal the actuality.The Map is not the Territory. In this old topic, I am reminded of what our old admin Ben said:
Ben writes: Can the Christian God be known, in all meanings of the word (i.e. experience in 'meeting' God, in knowing all about God, in knowing what God expects of you, etc), without the Bible? I maintain that GOD can be known through Jesus Christ. Critics may point out that my belief originates from the writings and bias of humans. The counterargument is that scripture is inspired by God and not by the motive, means, and opportunity of human authors.
Moose writes: At a basic level humans transmit ideas through time by storing them in some physical medium (books, cds, brains etc). The Bible is just a medium of storage. Galatians 1:11 writes:
I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin.2 Peter 1:21 writes:
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.jar writes: So are you saying in essense that even if Scripture came directly from GOD, humans would still pick and choose what they wanted to believe? What is considered Scripture will depend on which sub-set of Christianity you happen to belong to.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Perhaps we are extensions of Him. In essence, out of each generation, a small group of people not only sit down with the publicans and sinners but they feed the hungry, clothe the naked and comfort the sorrowful . A "perpetual Jesus" who lived forever, sitting down with publicans and sinners of every generation would be more effective than a dusty book. You say that doing the works proves the inner presence. I say that while you are right, inner wisdom results from prayer, study, meditation and communion. If you did good works on behalf of Joes Bar & Grill, the message you were selling would be quite different from the message coming from someone who advertised personal relationship with God versus simply warm fuzzies and full bellies around a bar.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Where's the value in "inner wisdom"?
I say that while you are right, inner wisdom results from prayer, study, meditation and communion. Phat writes:
Why do good works "on behalf" of anybody? Why not just do them because they're good? Why does there have to be a "message" at all except to do good?
If you did good works on behalf of Joes Bar & Grill, the message you were selling would be quite different from the message coming from someone who advertised personal relationship with God versus simply warm fuzzies and full bellies around a bar.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I maintain that GOD can be known through Jesus Christ. Critics may point out that my belief originates from the writings and bias of humans. The counterargument is that scripture is inspired by God and not by the motive, means, and opportunity of human authors. Come on Phat. If it were not for the Bible you would have never even heard of Jesus. And despite you maintaining the fiction, you have never explained how anyone can know anything through Jesus Christ or even what the hell that means?
Phat writes: So are you saying in essense that even if Scripture came directly from GOD, humans would still pick and choose what they wanted to believe? Not exactly although ALL of the evidence shows that is just a truism, what I am saying is that if Scripture came directly from God, God could not get the story straight or tell the truth or be consistent or hide its ignorance or even pretend to be fair or just or moral.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes:
Come on Phat. If it were not for the Bible you would have never even heard of Jesus. Why would you want to be the same old cuss you always were? What other ways might a creative servant enlighten you? Would you resist an invitation to kneel at the altar with them? Would the old cuss want to keep his own free will? what I am saying is that if Scripture came directly from God, God could not get the story straight or tell the truth or be consistent or hide its ignorance or even pretend to be fair or just or moral. Do you see God as a bumbling Deity learning on the job? How could such a fallible Being create all seen and unseen?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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