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Author Topic:   Are You an Authoritarian?
jar
Member
Posts: 29430
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 136 of 181 (614151)
05-02-2011 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Tram law
05-02-2011 11:34 AM


Re: new composite
Tram law writes:


But for the most part, political tests like those shouldn't be trusted because they can always be manipulated.

HUH?

The point of the test is to allow you to learn about yourself.

If you manipulate the answers to gt the answer you desire, what you have learned about yourself is that you like being willfully ignorant.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:34 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:56 AM jar has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.3


Message 137 of 181 (614152)
05-02-2011 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Tram law
05-02-2011 11:34 AM


Re: new composite
Tram law writes:

In one sense they are very authoritarian. But it all depends on how one defines authoritarian.

In partisan politics, of course, the claim will always be something akin to "the other party is the one who's Authoritarian and mine is not".

In regards to the test I think if you did the opposite you'd get a similar score on the other side of the graph.

But as for me, my own personal definition of Authoritarian, when it comes to politics, is that any party who wants to increase the size of government and increase it's powers over the citizens is an authoritarian party, regardless of the motivations behind it. I'm sure there are probably some weaknesses you can point out, but for the large part it pretty much bears out.

Such as when you consider the dictionary definition:

1. favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom: authoritarian principles; authoritarian attitudes.

2.
of or pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.

3.
exercising complete or almost complete control over the will of another or of others: an authoritarian parent.

But for the most part, political tests like those shouldn't be trusted because they can always be manipulated.

So how does this rant address this?

Theodoric writes:

You seem to be making the assumption that conservative=authoritarian. The point of the exercise seems to be that they are not equal.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:34 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:53 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Tram law
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 138 of 181 (614153)
05-02-2011 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Theodoric
05-02-2011 11:48 AM


Re: new composite
If you didn't want to hear what I had to say then you shouldn't have asked a question.

It does answer your question.

Even if you can't understand it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2011 11:48 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 139 of 181 (614154)
05-02-2011 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
05-02-2011 11:43 AM


Re: new composite
People always confuse disagreements with ignorant.

It's a test to see what your political leanings are. It is not accurate and only speaks of terms of right/left and libertarian and authoritarianism. It does not consider things like left and right have different meanings in other countries. It doesn't consider that Democrats can be different than liberals nor does it consider that Republicans can be different from conservatives. Nor does it consider the beliefs of other political parties either. At least as far as I know.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 05-02-2011 11:43 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2011 12:10 PM Tram law has responded
 Message 141 by jar, posted 05-02-2011 12:10 PM Tram law has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.3


Message 140 of 181 (614156)
05-02-2011 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Tram law
05-02-2011 11:56 AM


Re: new composite
It's a test to see what your political leanings are. It is not accurate and only speaks of terms of right/left and libertarian and authoritarianism. It does not consider things like left and right have different meanings in other countries. It doesn't consider that Democrats can be different than liberals nor does it consider that Republicans can be different from conservatives. Nor does it consider the beliefs of other political parties either. At least as far as I know.

But it is not intended to do that.

That is like saying cholesterol testing does not measure PSA levels.

The purpose of this is to SIMPLY give your political leanings on a right/left, authoritarian/libertarian matrix. Is it perfect? Of course not. Can it be manipulated? Of course it can. By why would you want to? Why would a person want to cheat on a personality test, unless they wanted to lie to themselves?

Oh could a simple test give an accurate portrayal about the complexity of a persons political leanings. All we can hope for is some sort of amorphous dot on a matrix.

It doesn't consider that Democrats can be different than liberals nor does it consider that Republicans can be different from conservatives.

Does it say anything about Democrat/Republican at all?
No. That is not its purpose.

It doesn't consider that Democrats can be different than liberals nor does it consider that Republicans can be different from conservatives.

Again this is not the purpose of this little test.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:56 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 12:35 PM Theodoric has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29430
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 141 of 181 (614157)
05-02-2011 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Tram law
05-02-2011 11:56 AM


Re: new composite
If you manipulate your answers all you learn is that you are willing to lie about your answers.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:56 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 12:36 PM jar has responded

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 142 of 181 (614161)
05-02-2011 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Theodoric
05-02-2011 12:10 PM


Re: new composite
I "cheated" to see what it would to take to get the kind of score I wanted to get out of curiosity, and to see what weaknesses the test had, nothing more.

There are different reasons for doing things other than lieing. It's up to the individual. Your mistake is assuming that all of us are the same.

And yes it is the purpose of the test, to see your political leanings.


It's simply a measure of attitudes and inevitable human contradictions to provide a more integrated definition of where people and parties are really at.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2011 12:10 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2011 12:44 PM Tram law has responded

  
Tram law
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 143 of 181 (614162)
05-02-2011 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by jar
05-02-2011 12:10 PM


Re: new composite
Which is a really short sighted way of looking at things.

There are different reasons for doing so.

It is an easy test to manipulate and simply should not be trusted.

Edited by Tram law, : spelling


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by jar, posted 05-02-2011 12:10 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by jar, posted 05-02-2011 2:40 PM Tram law has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.3


Message 144 of 181 (614163)
05-02-2011 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Tram law
05-02-2011 12:35 PM


Re: new composite
Your mistake is assuming that all of us are the same.

Please show where I have said or implied this. Are you lying about what I have said?

And yes it is the purpose of the test, to see your political leanings.

Exactly!! Based on a a left/right, authoritarian/libertarian matrix. No one realistically thinks this is going to be a highly accurate measure of anyone's total political beliefs.

I notice you used the word leanings. Your use of the word recognizes the purpose of the test. Maybe you don't know what "leanings" means.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 12:35 PM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 12:58 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Tram law
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 145 of 181 (614166)
05-02-2011 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Theodoric
05-02-2011 12:44 PM


Re: new composite
You said:


Why would a person want to cheat on a personality test, unless they wanted to lie to themselves?

Because you assume that this is the only reason for doing something like this and therefore since it can be the only reason everybody who does this is the same.

Which is not true.


I notice you used the word leanings. Your use of the word recognizes the purpose of the test. Maybe you don't know what "leanings" means.

Every time I have a disagreement over something people claim this. Or they call me a child because I don't think like them and are always very rude to me like you have been. A disagreement is not the same thing as not being able to comprehend what something means. If I had a dollar for every single time this happened to me I'd be a rich man.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2011 12:44 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29430
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 146 of 181 (614174)
05-02-2011 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Tram law
05-02-2011 12:36 PM


Re: new composite
Why can't it be trusted?

The test can be trusted to teach you about yourself.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 12:36 PM Tram law has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.3


Message 147 of 181 (614193)
05-02-2011 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Tram law
05-02-2011 11:34 AM


Authoritarian/Conservative
Do you truly think these are equal?

You have heard of the Tea Party haven't you? Now I don't think the vast majority of Tea Partiers have a clue how they feel about anything other than their fear of the poor and brown people. But the semi-official line of the Tea Party is that they are conservative and libertarian. This doesn't seem possible in your world.

Have you heard of FDR? He was liberal but authoritarian. Richard Nixon was actually fairly liberal too, but very authoritarian.

You seem to want everything to fit into a box. This is one of those things that is not easily defined.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:34 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Tram law, posted 05-08-2011 11:54 AM Theodoric has responded

    
Tram law
Member (Idle past 2261 days)
Posts: 283
From: Weed, California, USA
Joined: 08-15-2010


Message 148 of 181 (614884)
05-08-2011 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Theodoric
05-02-2011 3:52 PM


Re: Authoritarian/Conservative
Actually it's you who wants to fit everything in a box, and your continued efforts to pester me show this.

I've actually read the Tea Party's official website. With you playing the race card it seems you haven't and are just following the party line. Which is ironic considering your little rant about me because I have my own beliefs about things. Not to mention how easily you've defined the Tea party as racists when you really haven't read anything about them except what your fellow liberals say about them. And I haven't known a liberal yet who does not call each and every single one of them racists because of a few loud mouthed idiots in the party as well as calling them Teabaggers as an insult.

So I'm sure you'll just continue to pester me just because I have my own beliefs. I suppose you just can't help yourself.

And that's the difference between me and you. I don't pester you or other people just because they have different beliefs than other people.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Theodoric, posted 05-02-2011 3:52 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Theodoric, posted 05-08-2011 6:41 PM Tram law has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.3


Message 149 of 181 (614907)
05-08-2011 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Tram law
05-08-2011 11:54 AM


Authoritarian=Conservative? is the question
How about addressing the issue. You are claiming that conservatism and authoritarianism are equal. Care to defend that?

What is with he personal attacks?

Not to mention how easily you've defined the Tea party as racists when you really haven't read anything about them except what your fellow liberals say about them

So you know me personally? You know what I do or do not know? Weird?

And that's the difference between me and you. I don't pester you or other people just because they have different beliefs than other people.

You do realize that this is a debate site don't you? This is not a site to allow Tram Law to pontificate without him having to defend his arguments. If you don't like people calling you out on the crap you post, quit posting it. Or maybe you could address the issues people bring up with reasonable arguments and lay off the personal attacks. A thinker skin would help your posting a lot.

Latest tea party racist in news

Maybe you should Google Mark Williams. I can show you endless examples of racism in the Tea Party movement. How many examples of Tea Partiers disavowing the racism can you provide?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Tram law, posted 05-08-2011 11:54 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Coyote, posted 05-08-2011 9:12 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 152 by Buzsaw, posted 05-08-2011 10:04 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 165 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 11:03 AM Theodoric has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 6012
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 150 of 181 (614911)
05-08-2011 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Theodoric
05-08-2011 6:41 PM


Re: Authoritarian=Conservative? is the question
Racist: Anyone who wins an argument with a liberal.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Theodoric, posted 05-08-2011 6:41 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-08-2011 9:53 PM Coyote has not yet responded
 Message 153 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-08-2011 10:22 PM Coyote has not yet responded
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