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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 467 of 675 (742558)
11-21-2014 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by Faith
11-21-2014 5:49 PM


Re: Try actually reading the Bible Faith
Of course you can, unless you are a Calvinist.
We can love God and our neighbors whether we have ever heard of Jesus or any gospels or repented anything.
The end is no more at hand today than it was 2000 years ago.
Following the two Great Commandments is about living, not dying. But Calvinists have never been able to do that.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 5:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 468 of 675 (742560)
11-21-2014 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by Faith
11-21-2014 5:49 PM


Re: Try actually reading the Bible Faith
Faith writes:
jar writes:
Faith writes:
Jesus said Repent and believe. That's all we're supposed to do.
You really haven't read the Bible have you Faith.
quote:
And one of them, a doctor of the Law, putting him to the test, asked him, "Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?" Jesus said to him, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)
Repent and believe, you can't do the rest until after that.
Are you saying that people are unable to love their neighbors as themselves if they do not repent and believe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 5:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 469 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 9:57 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 469 of 675 (742561)
11-21-2014 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 468 by New Cat's Eye
11-21-2014 9:41 PM


Read it and believe it
Read it and believe it is what I'm saying. You have to repent and believe, those were the first words of Jesus. There's a lot to the Bible to obey but you start with Repent and believe. Read it and believe it, that's my message. I refuse to get dragged off the message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 468 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-21-2014 9:41 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by Theodoric, posted 11-22-2014 12:41 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 480 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-22-2014 2:16 PM Faith has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 470 of 675 (742562)
11-22-2014 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 469 by Faith
11-21-2014 9:57 PM


read it not impressed
It is just bronze age tales, not impressed, very derivative. And not very original. Been there, done that, have the t shirt.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 9:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 471 of 675 (742563)
11-22-2014 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 460 by jar
11-21-2014 10:59 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
jar writes:
If people believe then does it matter whether or not the belief is based on reality?
Truth matters
jar writes:
And aren't Taoism and Buddhism religions?
Yes
jar writes:
And is God alive?
Yes
jar writes:
Can you apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity?
Unknowable
jar writes:
What are the two Great Commandments?
Love God which any theist can do.
Love your neighbour which anyone can do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by jar, posted 11-21-2014 10:59 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 473 by jar, posted 11-22-2014 8:30 AM GDR has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 472 of 675 (742564)
11-22-2014 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 463 by Faith
11-21-2014 3:56 PM


Re: Just read and believe the Bible for a change
That's a lot to pack into one statement. Especially when you have Jesus telling people to believe books that hadn't even been written. Want to quote the verse in context?
It gets worse still when we consider that you've told us the the Gospels claim to have been written before the destruction of the Temple, to that the authors all claimed to be eye-witnesses, neither of which is true.
And yet you have problems with things that the Bible does say. Like the fact that Leviticus does not make a distinction between "moral" and "ceremonial" law. Or that Daniel's "End Times" are set before Jesus was born. And I cannot think that you truly believe Matthew 7:1-5. You certainly don't act like it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 3:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 477 by Faith, posted 11-22-2014 11:22 AM PaulK has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 473 of 675 (742578)
11-22-2014 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by GDR
11-22-2014 2:08 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
GDR writes:
jar writes:
If people believe then does it matter whether or not the belief is based on reality?
Truth matters
LOL
But there is no way while still alive to know the truth when it comes to whether or not Jesus actually lived at all.
GDR writes:
jar writes:
And is God alive?
Yes
jar writes:
Can you apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity?
Unknowable
If it is unknowable to apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity then how can you answer "Yes" to the question "Is God alive?"

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 2:08 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 474 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 10:27 AM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 474 of 675 (742589)
11-22-2014 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 473 by jar
11-22-2014 8:30 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
jar writes:
But there is no way while still alive to know the truth when it comes to whether or not Jesus actually lived at all.
...and there is no way we can actually know whether Julius Caesar lived or not.
jar writes:
If it is unknowable to apply the terms alive or dead to a supernatural entity then how can you answer "Yes" to the question "Is God alive?"
It is my belief that God is alive. If you are talking about a generic supernatural entity then I have no idea.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 473 by jar, posted 11-22-2014 8:30 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by Theodoric, posted 11-22-2014 10:36 AM GDR has not replied
 Message 476 by jar, posted 11-22-2014 10:36 AM GDR has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 475 of 675 (742594)
11-22-2014 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by GDR
11-22-2014 10:27 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
...and there is no way we can actually know whether Julius Caesar lived or not
That lame argument does not fly. We have libraries of contemporary historical evidence for Julius Caesar. There is absolutely nothing for a historical Jesus Christ.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 10:27 AM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 476 of 675 (742595)
11-22-2014 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by GDR
11-22-2014 10:27 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
...and there is no way we can actually know whether Julius Caesar lived or not.
Actually yes, we can know whether or not Julius Caesar lived or not with a VERY high degree of certainty. But that is not at all true when it comes to Jesus. There are no coins bearing Jesus likeness, no statues, no non Biblical contemporary references but we have all of those things when it comes to Julius Caesar.
It is my belief that God is alive. If you are talking about a generic supernatural entity then I have no idea.
How do you apply the terms alive or dead to God? What does that mean?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 10:27 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 11:52 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 477 of 675 (742610)
11-22-2014 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 472 by PaulK
11-22-2014 4:18 AM


Re: Just read and believe the Bible for a change
You really ought to listen to some orthodox traditional Protestant preachers some time. Everything you say in this post is wrong, especially your misreading of what it means to judge another.
I just want to answer the one complaint you make about the ceremonial law: Jesus fulfilled ALL the laws of the Old Testament and all of them stopped operating for believers except the moral law because that is of the very nature of God Himself. Scripture tells us that Jesus abolished the law that had formed a barrier between Jew and Gentile:
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, (Ephesians 2:14—15)
Here's an article on it.
Their understanding of cleanness such as clean foods required them not to associate with Gentiles. That was broken by Christ.
Try reading the Bible with a simple honest heart instead of imposing your own ideas on it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by PaulK, posted 11-22-2014 4:18 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 478 by PaulK, posted 11-22-2014 11:33 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 509 by Taq, posted 11-24-2014 5:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 478 of 675 (742614)
11-22-2014 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 477 by Faith
11-22-2014 11:22 AM


Re: Just read and believe the Bible for a change
quote:
You really ought to listen to some orthodox traditional Protestant preachers some time. Everything you say in this post is wrong, especially your misreading of what it means to judge another.
I'm only telling you what the Bible says. If "orthodox traditional Protestant preachers" disagree with the Bible, that's not a reaon to believe them.
quote:
I just want to answer the one complaint you make about the ceremonial law: Jesus fulfilled ALL the laws of the Old Testament and all of them stopped operating for believers except the moral law because that is of the very nature of God Himself.
That really doesn't address my point the the distinction is absent from Leviticus.
quote:
Try reading the Bible with a simple honest heart instead of imposing your own ideas on it.
If you did that you would know that I was right.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 477 by Faith, posted 11-22-2014 11:22 AM Faith has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 479 of 675 (742620)
11-22-2014 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 476 by jar
11-22-2014 10:36 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
jar writes:
Actually yes, we can know whether or not Julius Caesar lived or not with a VERY high degree of certainty. But that is not at all true when it comes to Jesus. There are no coins bearing Jesus likeness, no statues, no non Biblical contemporary references but we have all of those things when it comes to Julius Caesar.
This is a red herring and I have no doubt that Julius Caesar lived with a high degree of certainty. However, the Bible is not one source. There are several authors talking about Jesus in several books that are collected together. In addition as Luke says in his Gospel the Gospels themselves come from a variety of sources. However, I agree we can't know that Jesus existed just as we can't know he didn't. There is no evidence to show that He didn't. (I know you can't prove a negative.)
jar writes:
How do you apply the terms alive or dead to God? What does that mean?
You tell me. You asked the question.
Edited by GDR, : typo

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 476 by jar, posted 11-22-2014 10:36 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 481 by jar, posted 11-22-2014 3:10 PM GDR has replied
 Message 483 by Theodoric, posted 11-22-2014 4:03 PM GDR has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 480 of 675 (742633)
11-22-2014 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Faith
11-21-2014 9:57 PM


Re: Read it and believe it
You have to repent and believe, those were the first words of Jesus.
Chapter and verse?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Faith, posted 11-21-2014 9:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by PaulK, posted 11-22-2014 3:35 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 484 by Theodoric, posted 11-22-2014 4:09 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 485 by Faith, posted 11-22-2014 4:28 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 481 of 675 (742646)
11-22-2014 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by GDR
11-22-2014 11:52 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
The Bible is an anthology of anthologies edited by a bias group who decided what the content would be.
GDR writes:
However, I agree we can't know that Jesus existed just as we can't know he didn't. There is no evidence to show that He didn't.
Nor have I tried to show Jesus never existed. What I have said is it doesn't really matter; Christianity today and in the past was based on belief not facts.
GDR writes:
jar writes:
How do you apply the terms alive or dead to God? What does that mean?
You tell me. You asked the question.
But I cannot tell you since I cannot see how the terms alive or dead can have any meaning in relation to a supernatural entity.
I do not assert that God is alive or Jesus is alive.
AbE:
GDR writes:
However, the Bible is not one source. There are several authors talking about Jesus in several books that are collected together. In addition as Luke says in his Gospel the Gospels themselves come from a variety of sources.
But it is not a red herring or even a slippery dick. How many authors have written about King Arthur or Robin Hood or Sherlock Holmes or Dick Tracy? And their sources come from a variety of sources.
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by GDR, posted 11-22-2014 11:52 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 507 by GDR, posted 11-24-2014 5:19 PM jar has replied

  
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