"THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO

[guote] However, Moller and other geologists have come along and measured it right using much more sophisticated sonar equipment. [/quote][guote] The curvature starting from the Nuweiba beach to the east beach is absolute astounding. It is smooth all the way, and there are no pit falls. [/quote][guote] It has been confirmed that it meets up with US disability standards. No where else does it slope in such a nice curve.[/quote][guote] These arn't just made up. They're based on the data a number of interested scientsts have collected. Forget the bogus U.S and British military data of which had very little interest in studying the area. We have a number of teams who did a much more thorough job. [/quote]I’ve yet to see the supporting evidence of the previous. Contour maps of the type I have seen shown on this board are by no means proof of the above claim, It has been confirmed that it meets up with US disability standards. It is the case that a contour map can disprove such a claim (by a showing of great or sudden changes of depth), but contour maps of the type I have seen here are too limited in their ability to prove what has been suggested here. In laymen’s terms contours of 100 meters are not precise enough to prove gradual sloping.3D recreations aren’t persuasive if one cannot provide the supporting data. 3D recreations are particularly suspect used as they are used here since it is the very nature of 3D modeling meshes to create exactly the same look which you assert unique to the area. Claims of support from unknown scientists aren’t persuasive (especially given the pattern of using scientists outside of their field who are not using standardized methodologies). Claims of confirmations are meaningless without support.

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Moller and other geologists have come along and measured it right using much more sophisticated sonar equipment. The fact is, there is still a considerable difference compared to the north and south of Aqaba.

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I’m confused here. Are you claiming now that Moller is now also a geologist? What exactly would his credentials be to do any geological measurements? What equipment did he use? Which other geologists? Even more problematically, where is the new data for the entirety of the Red Sea? You realize that since you and apparently they are claiming that the official existing data for the area is erroneous, that the claims for this being the only suitable place cannot be based on data you and they claim to be erroneous. To assert, No where else does it slope in such a nice curve. is not supportable if you hold the data which would support that claim to be suspect. Science doesn’t let you pick and chose in this manner.This message has been edited by Trae, 07-02-2004 07:31 PM

Can you post some web sources on what coral will and will not grow on? I've looked and not found much that is useful.

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Amazing. So you admit that Nassif Hassan did say this, but now since you find yourself at a loss, you are forced to revert by picking at straws and state that he "didn't" have a doctorate at the time he said it. So, if he had said it when he didn't have a doctorate, but then obtained a doctorate the next week and still hadn't changed his mind, would that mean that his statement DIDN'T COUNT?

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Or maybe some of us expect that if someone is going to be presented as an expert, that someone actually does so. We still have zero/zip to know if he was qualified to make the statement he did. Even worse, since we don’t have the basis of his thinking, we cannot even attempt to falsify his findings. This is really poor form. That you throw out a week with no support shows desperation to make some sort of case.

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The particular knowledge needed in these areas tounderstanding underwater petrification (calcium carbonate replacement), understanding coral structures (identifying the difference between an object and a natural growth formation), understanding the size, shape, and numbers of spokes on chariot wheels, and understanding that they could have ONLY been Egyptian employed by their variety DOES NOT require an extensive amount of knowledge. You can be trained in these areas, but not necessarily credentialed for them.

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So where can we find his studies of petrifaction and his methods of preparing the sample for testing.Also, please direct us to where he honestly attempts to falsify that the found coral samples cannot simply be natural formations. Something along the lines of: This cluster of coral is of X variety, which takes on Y formations and only Y formations.

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1. Do you believe the wheels photographed in the Gulf of Aqaba actually exist at Nuweiba or do you think the video is a fraud?

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The one ‘gold’ wheel that is shown the clearest does not seem to representative of an Eqyptian chariot wheel. The sources seem to be in agreement that a defining characteristic of Egyptian chariot wheels are thin spokes.Also note the segmented wheels on the Egyptian chariot in the link below:http://www.wyattmuseum.com/images/wpe95.jpgWe’re told the wood of this wheel has rotted away leaving a thin veneer of gold, yet there is coral which is either growing out of, dropped or rolled upon, or was placed on top of the wheel. Still, the wheel looks pristine. If the coral is growing out of the wheel, why didn’t the thin gold get displaced in some manner? If the object if just resting on the wheel, why wasn’t it removed for a better photo?http://www.wyattmuseum.com/images/wpe2E1.jpgWhile the image could be better, the above photo doesn’t show any of the type of segmenting that the chariot in the earlier museum photo exhibits. Nor does it seem to have the types of joins shown in drawings of Eqyptian chariot wheels. Someone else has already mentioned that the hub of the ocean ‘wheel’ is greatly different then the one in the museum. The style seems more modern and looks as if the edges are milled to be beveled.As to the coral formations. I don’t think anyone has brought up that coral often is spherical and or radial. I haven’t seen any convincing arguments that the formations aren’t natural. Keep in mind that different types of coral grow on top of each other. So given enough coral, time, and space all sorts of shapes are possible.Cnidarians are simple, radially symmetrical, animals. Radial symmetry means that the body is a hub, like a bicycle wheel, and tentacles are spokes coming out of it. Sabung SV388 Ayam OnlineEven if it turns out that the formations aren’t natural it doesn’t mean they’re chariot wheels. There is certainly more than one ship that has been lost in the Red Sea. Google shipwreck red sea 5,790.I’m at a complete loss as to how a Saudi Law prevents anyone on the Egypt side of the sea [am I missing something here?]. If they do not bring up items out of respect/fear for Saudi Law, then how did they bring up the bone?

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2. If you believe they exist,

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I have not been presented with enough reason to believe they [wheels] exist, so the rest is moot for now.

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The video is available to all who care enough to spend a few bucks to examine the evidence in it. The book, of course would go into the researched evidence more conprehensively. You've been able to see the excellent photography presented in this thread. I'm quite sure there are many who, were it possible, would go out to prove they do not exist. Since denial is impossible, and they know it, nobody's even attempting to do so.

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The video doesn’t present the evidence well. It won’t convince those that require scientific evidence to be presented scientifically and with peer review. Still, few documentaries reach that level of presenting evidence. Anyone who watches documentaries should consider further research and anyone making a documentary to persuade others should always make real research available and should make it relatively easy to get a hold of that research. The very least Moller should do is prepare a web site to in depth present his claims and counter those of his critics.Oddly enough with all the Michael Moore bashing that goes on, he at least presents his evidence and addresses rebuttals.The book may make a better case and if it does, why buy the video which clearly does not? Even then the book seems to contain little primary material. It may contain a few printed results, but does it list for instance the methods under which the sample was obtained and prepared before it was tested? Does it list the entirety of the lab reports or simply exerpts?Contrary to what some have suggested here, Buy my book and buy my video is not the way to get other scientists interested in supporting one’s hypothesis. It is a way to get scientists not to take you seriously at all though. It is a way to make your name as a joke in any field.No one has presented anything even ‘resembling comprehensively researched evidence’ on the wheels, the bones, the pillars, the mountain, the drawings, the cave, etc. If you leave out evidence, such as what everyone else thinks those finds mean, then it can hardly be called comprehensive.As to excellent photography, just last night I was looking at the underwater shots and thinking just how poor they really were. The shots I have seen of the ‘gold’ wheel have a large area entirely blown out. The details are obscured. There is no scale shown, nor have I seen a close up photo of the wheel. This is not excellent photography. Looks to me that the jpgs are from video or perhaps film. Since the hypothesis hinges on the wheels, then shots of the wheels are the photos that many would rather see clearly and in detail.Denial is hardly impossible. The ‘gold’ wheel may not even be a chariot wheel. The coral shots are not inconsistent with what we know about coral formations. There have been shipwrecks in the area. If there is even much of anything there, it could be, just that, almost anything.

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So far as I'm aware, National Geographic's Dr. Ballard, world famed marine explorer and scientist, has never investigated the site. Why not?

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Why ask us? Ask him or Moller.It really does not advance your cause to make these wild accusations without support. What did Moller send to Ballard? What was Ballard’s reply? For all we know Ballard was interested, and is waiting for someone else to get their act together.

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They don't want their pet ideologies destroyed or damaged by what their research would likely produce.

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Even if some of ‘they’ don’t, the others simply wouldn’t care. Asserting that all archeologists hold the same pet ideologies is not unlike stating that all Republicans support the same exact issues. Do you really believe that well-trained Chinese archeologists all are aware of the pet ideologies of Egyptologists, let alone that they support all these so-called pet ideologies?Even if all archeologists held all the same exact pet ideologies they would still be able to conduct basic research. What seems unreasonable is that with all these books, videos, and DVDs being sold, that one would be able to hire a properly trained staff. Completely unreasonable is that after 25 years, not a single proper scientific paper has been produced, let alone published.

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Does not seem my foot.

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Well as long as your foot is certain, I guess that closes the case.

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BAH, I highly doubt you’ve even seen it before masquerading in here as though you know what you’re talking about.

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I haven’t seen it. I even gave the reasons why people like me don’t need to see it. If you disagree with those reasons then feel free to correct me.I said:The video doesn’t present the evidence well. It won’t convince those that require scientific evidence to be presented scientifically and with peer review. Still, few documentaries reach that level of presenting evidence. Anyone who watches documentaries should consider further research and anyone making a documentary to persuade others should always make real research available and should make it relatively easy to get a hold of that research. The very least Moller should do is prepare a web site to in depth present his claims and counter those of his critics.I have been to the web site and from there and what has been said here I have no reason to believe it is different than any other documentary. Documentaries as science suck in my opinion. One-sided documentaries sucketh even more so.http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO -->EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO

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Here we have the precise reproduction drawing versions of the parallel 18th dynasty four-spoke wheels shown above ...

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Reproductions taken from what souce? What is the primary source material? You have to realize that a 64pg pulp book by an author with a Master’s degree in Political Theology isn’t enough for the level of evidence we ask for around here. Don’t get me wrong, what you posted is interesting; so please now bring us the original evidence/sources.

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The apparent discrepancy observed in the lack of segments for the Aqaba version as compared with the description could very well be accounted for by the wheel resting on its opposite/inner side.

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I don’t see how that would be possible. Seems that the wheel, spokes, and hub, were sectional and then the whole thing was fitted together. Not sure how one would be able to do that on one side without the wheel segments tending to bend. Not that this changes much, there may be segments and joins there, I just don’t think from the images we’ve been presented with we can say yet.

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Notice some striking similarities between the middle design, as well as the almost parallel detail in the spokes beginning thicker from the center and slightly tapering to a thinner look. The apparent discrepancy observed in the lack of segments for the Aqaba version as compared with the description could very well be accounted for by the wheel resting on its opposite/inner side.

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There may be slight tapering. I can certainly see where people looking at the image would believe so. I’ll make later post on this.