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Author Topic:   "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 860 (95206)
03-27-2004 8:20 PM


The video, "The Exodus Revealed, produced by Discovery Media Productions and distributed by Questar, Inc. which I ordered arrived today. My wife and I just finished viewing it and if I have been a fundamentalist Biblical believer for 58 years, I most assuradly am a fundamentalist Biblical believer after having viewed this video photography.
When I first became a Christian at age ten, I would have never have imagined that there would come a day when I could sit in my living room and actually view the remains of the chariots of Pharoah I was reading about in my Bible.
Dr. Lennart Moller is a research scientist of the Karolinska Institute of Stockholm, Sweden. Moller specializes in cancer research and DNA analysis. He also has training in marine biology and chemistry. In this video, The Exodus Revealed, Dr. Moller uses scientific and forensic investigating techniques to investigate the ancient Biblical story of the Exodus.
The video begins with the discovery of what is believed by many to be a cite in Egypt which is a unique village or town in Egypt where a people other than of Egyptian culture, likely Asian or Mideast dating about the time of Joseph dwelled. In the Bible we are told that Joseph's eleven brothers, their families and father were given a place in Egypt to live during the famine in Caanan. It also covers evidence that there were foreign slaves in Egypt. It follows the steps/trail of Moses to what is now Saudi Arabia described in the Bible as the land of Midian.
Now, if you want to see something that should astound the most skeptical of you, you need to get this beautiful video documenting Moller's underwater photography of coral covered chariot wheels and axles of both four spoke and six spoke wheels common in that time found on a natural underwater sand bar smak dab in the middle of the Gulf of Aqaba, a gulf, which almost everywhere except this one area is about as deep as the Grand Canyon and unpassable even if the sea were parted. there is at this spot also a peninsula beach large enough for the number of people to assemble that is stated in the Biblical account. There is no other place in the region which has the junk yard like scattering of coral formations resembling things like chariot wheels and axles. The coral formations elsewhere are clustered together. Explanation is given that coral only forms where it can grow from something like wood objects or something to feed it and there's relatively little in the region and certainly none anywhere near this site. The Saudis do not allow coral samples or anything to be taken from the gulf, but metal detectors were used by Moller's team which detected metal in the formations.
The video then takes you across into Saudi Arabia where, if I remember correctly the highest mountain in Saudi Arabia is in the land of Midian which has a burnt looking top but not a volcanoe, resembling the description of Mt Horeb. There is also a split rock where it appears water once flowed in the region. This all is, though not connected with Ron Wyatt's organization follows up in investigating much of what he had earlier claimed to have discovered, though he didn't have all the sophisticated underwater cameras and other equipment to view this area. Believe me, whether skeptic or believer, imo, you will not be disappointed in spending a few bucks to purchase this video and see for yourself.
Moller seems to be offering this evidence, leaving no conclusive claims by himself, but leaving the viewer to decide whether the evidence is convincing or not. It does not appear that he is operation from a Christian base but strictly archeological for what it's worth.
If you have Quicktime Player, you can view clips of the video at this link. Mahoney Media – Page not found

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by jessie, posted 03-27-2004 8:34 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 131 by Lysimachus, posted 06-01-2004 10:31 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 860 (95223)
03-27-2004 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by jessie
03-27-2004 8:34 PM


Do a search on ebay of THE EXODUS REVEALED and there will be prices quoted all the way from about $9 up. Dvd is cheaper than vhs from some.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by jessie, posted 03-27-2004 8:34 PM jessie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by jessie, posted 03-27-2004 9:11 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 860 (95237)
03-27-2004 9:43 PM


Moller has also written a book of the find entiled THE EXODUS CASE which goes for around $35, but with all the photography and typographic views to accompany the data given, one is better able to understand why the Israelites chose this route. For one thing, Moses fled to this land when he fled Pharoah originally and would have had to have gone via the north end by land around the Gulf of Aquba to get to Midian where the Bible has him in Exodus 3:1. Also, this verse has Mt Horeb in Midian, now Saudi Arabia, East of Aqaba.
Moses would have chosen this route, being familar with it. I haven't checked the scriptures, but the Video says God told Moses to alter the original path Moses would have taken to the beach peninsula where the chariot 'junk yard' has been discovered.
WARNING TO BIBLIOSKEPTICS DISCLAIMER!! Viewing this video may cause permanent ideological damage to your evological and secularological mindsets!!

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 860 (95244)
03-27-2004 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ConsequentAtheist
03-27-2004 9:38 PM


CA, the only relationship this has to Wyatt is that Wyatt was there first, as I understand it. Wyatt's Biblical archeological interest was more or less a sidline interest of his, being an anasthesiologist by trade, but this video is very professionally and scientifically documented by a bonafide scientist, you know, those people you all regard as around an echelon or two lower than the gods.
I don't know, but it likely was Wyatt's discoveries that aroused the interest of science to this. In the video, without naming any names it was briefly mentioned that others had looked at this or something to that effect. I want to view it again as soon as I get time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 03-27-2004 9:38 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 03-27-2004 10:08 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 860 (95249)
03-27-2004 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by NosyNed
03-27-2004 9:46 PM


Re: no jumping
Ned, the narrator of the video makes no claims that anything has been proven by this, but that the search has been in the wrong places and the evidence for a crossing here is very significant, but each must decide for themselves as to how seriously they view this evidence.
The argument has been raised here by some that the number of alleged Israelites involved couldn't have outrun the Egyptian army, but two factors should be considered:
1. That there was a pillar of fire by night to light the way for night travel when desired as well as a cloud by day so as to make the journey totally free of the hot sun whereas the Egyptians and their beasts must go it in the blazing heat of the desert.
2. Some time had passed before Pharoah determined to go after the Israelites, giving the Israelites a significant head start.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by NosyNed, posted 03-27-2004 9:46 PM NosyNed has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 860 (95253)
03-27-2004 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jessie
03-27-2004 9:11 PM


Glad to be of help to you, Jess. I'm just a bum telling other bums where I found bread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jessie, posted 03-27-2004 9:11 PM jessie has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 860 (95257)
03-27-2004 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ConsequentAtheist
03-27-2004 10:08 PM


Mmmm....CA, in street language, what are you asking Mr. Ordinary Me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 03-27-2004 10:08 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 03-27-2004 10:25 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 860 (95304)
03-28-2004 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Amlodhi
03-27-2004 11:37 PM


Re: no jumping
No, we don't. In fact there are a multitude of problems with the renditions that are found in recently available books and videos regarding this issue. Such issues as the time it would take the Israelites to travel various distances, the mis-reported archaeological dating and status of the alleged altar, bovine carvings and the "cave of Moses" found at Jebel al-Lawz.
So what are some of these alleged problems, if you could be more specific?
There are also many problems with identifying the Nuweiba crossing on the gulf of Aqaba as the biblical Red Sea event.
....Problems such as?
At this point, I am aware of no actual artifacts that can be physically presented (any that were said to have been recovered somehow can't be located).
1. The penalty for getting caught removing any evidence from the site could well be severe, not ruling out death at the hands of the Saudis.
2. What better evidence than the recorded site itself by reliable scientists?
I have also read the personal account of one of the team members that accompanied L. Moller on his excursion (though it's been awhile so I will need to find it again to put a name to this person). The account by him that I read, however, mentioned only that Moller had previously found what was purportedly a coral encrusted human femur bone and that they saw what might be part of a coral encrusted spoked wheel.
So? If we x out a pidly bone, how does that damage the other quite imperial evidence?
I haven't seen pictures, so I will reserve judgment. However, this has not only been followed for a long period of time in both BAR and Bible & Spade, but I have also read other articles from pastors and religious proponents that have urged extreme caution in this because they were not impressed by the "few and ambiguous" coral shapes that they feel are being prematurely identified.
Better have a look.
Incidentally, the objections mentioned above regarding the identification of Jebel al-Lawz as biblical Mt. Sinai and also for the Nuweiba crossing on the gulf of Aqaba as the biblical Red Sea event, were raised by bible believing Christians and not skeptics.
I believe you're referring possibly to criticism back in the early Wyatt days when so many including ICR's Morris were badmouthing Wyatt, mostly because this unprofessional dude was finding stuff the pros had been looking all over tarnation for except in the right places. This's not to say I subscribe to every claim of Wyatt.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Amlodhi, posted 03-27-2004 11:37 PM Amlodhi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Amlodhi, posted 03-28-2004 2:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 860 (95306)
03-28-2004 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Amlodhi
03-27-2004 11:37 PM


Re: no jumping
I have seen very little (besides apologetics) on the web concerning this subject, however, a paper that was presented at a meeting of the Near East Archaeological Society by Gordon Franz can be accessed from the link below.
http://www.ldolphin.org/franz-ellawz.html
Amlodhi, did you note the old date on the study?
1. The study fails to correlate the multiple kinds of evidence, such as the size of the peninsula for assembling, the split rock with evidence of flowing water, the burnt appearing mountain top unique t the region, the natural submerged sandbar and of course, most importantly the very obvious photos of actual chariot wheels matching the type of wheels in museums for that time.
2. A lot of more credible scientific effort has been achieved since the 2001 critique was published.

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 860 (95308)
03-28-2004 12:58 AM


I will need to check out the time of Mollor's research before I can use my point number two for an argument, so I will scratch that until I can do that. Bedtime in the East for now.

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 860 (95309)
03-28-2004 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by ConsequentAtheist
03-27-2004 10:25 PM


Re: Embracing Ignorance Yet Again ...
If you don't know, learn.
This thread is not about Wyatt's evidence perse. In answer to your question, please reread my opening posts and view the link clips.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 03-27-2004 10:25 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 860 (95341)
03-28-2004 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Brian
03-28-2004 4:23 AM


Re: Two Exoduses, or maybe three?
So now we have two different Exoduses (yes it is a word), this one of Wyatt/Moller and the other one mentioned in the Hebrew Bible.
Since this one is radically different from that of the Hebrew Bible,so radical in fact that it takes place at a different sea altogether, we must assume that there were two different events.
Aqaba was considered part of the Red sea when the scriptures were written according to Moller and I believe according to history. Correct me if I'm mistaken. Were you aware of this when you posted or are you simply resorting to deceit here?
IF some people wish to claim they are the same event, then why is the Hebrew Bible's version so different?
Which Hebrew Bible and wherein are there differences?
Also, where would the Israelites have ran too? The Egyptian armies did not need to chase them as the Israelites were simply running away into another part of the Egyptian Empire, there was no where for them to run too.
You need to see the video or read the book, THE EXODUS CASE which explains why Moses would have chose this route. He had previously been in Midian where he married before returning to Egypt. The first route would have headed in the same direction except that the first trip would have been to the north of Aqaba, but according to the video, the Bible indicates that the Bible states that God told him to divert to the Nuweiba area for the crossing. I have yet to check that out.
Artefacts that provide evidence for one of the main events in the Qur'an and evidence for one of Islam's greatest prophets, and the Suadi's would get upset. Nonsense.
Well then, how about proving otherwise. All of the people I've read about doing work in Muslamland say the same thing. Besides, the last thing the Muslims would do is to allow evidence which would do far more to the credit of the Bible than for the Quran, drawing attention to the Bible which the Westerners would do, since the account originated in the Bible, not the Quran.
The actual artefacts themselves would be better evidence. That Kenneth Kitchen is involved should alert you to the objectivity of the argument.
LOL. Then you people would most assuredly claim they were gotten from another location and biased Westerners would lay claim to this area. This way they're right there near the other stated evidence with little reason for doubt.
Oh to be so gullible, it must be bliss.
........or to be so phobically paranoid as to see the need to find some excuse, any excuse to deny the scientific evidence for Biblical truth and the existence in the Universe of the supernatural dimension.
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-28-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Brian, posted 03-28-2004 4:23 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Buzsaw, posted 03-28-2004 9:05 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 25 by Brian, posted 03-28-2004 9:42 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 69 by Brian, posted 05-04-2004 4:42 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 860 (95343)
03-28-2004 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Buzsaw
03-28-2004 8:58 AM


Re: Two Exoduses, or maybe three?
Why is the system not allowing me to edit my own post??
Ah, I see I must have missed notice of an editing change system. Now all I need is for the password to be saved for editing. Thanks in advance, admin.
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-28-2004]

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 860 (95344)
03-28-2004 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Incontrovertible
03-28-2004 5:24 AM


Re: Two Exoduses, or maybe three?
Brian, you took the words right out of my mouth.
LOL! You need bigger and better guns than anything Brian has showed to shoot down this'n.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Incontrovertible, posted 03-28-2004 5:24 AM Incontrovertible has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 860 (95476)
03-28-2004 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Brian
03-28-2004 9:42 AM


Re: Two Exoduses, or maybe three?
the Bible NEVER EVER states that the crossing was at the Red Sea. It was at the SEA OF REEDS ( yam suph ), the Red Sea has NO reeds, I even think that most Bible's have a foot note to explain this. Why do you continue to ignore this information. Richard Rives from Wyatt Archaeology also kept ignoring this info in an email discussion I had with him, I even wrote it in a massive font for him to read, he continued to ignore it.
Not true. There is an ongoing controversy as to which it is but most English translations as well as some ancient texts have used the word "Red" in connection with the area. Nany are now believing that "Reed Sea" is more proper. Before the canal was built the head wathers and the north end of the sea had a lot of reed growth and this could have been the reason the sea was known as the Reed Sea. At any rate, the crossing couldn't have been at the shallow marshes and lakes of the headwaters of the Red/Reed Sea because:
1. Moses would have followed the way he was familiar with to Midian in the escape and in his first trip he never had a problem getting past the headwaters of the sea.
2. The text implicates a deep enough sea to thoroughly submerge the Egyptian army.
3. The crossing would have to be a mile or so wide for all the Israelites to get across.
4. Marshland would be muddy and unsuitable for crossing even with a wind to dry.
5. The Mt Horeb site does not match with other areas than the Nuweiba site.
6. The evidence is at the Nuweiba site, so why should another site be considered.
7. Aquba is also mentioned by the same word suph in relation to Solomon's fleet.
8. The phrase, "yam suph" is more correctly translate "Sea of seaweed" which can refer to any sea, the word "suph" meaning seaweed. Jonah is a good example as this "suph" was entangling him in the sea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Brian, posted 03-28-2004 9:42 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 03-28-2004 9:03 PM Buzsaw has replied
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