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Author Topic:   Pick and Choose Fundamentalism
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 143 of 384 (514349)
07-06-2009 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Hill Billy
07-06-2009 5:12 PM


No, it is not my place to judge what is just. That is GOD's thing. He judges. I may not like his judgment but it's his to make. After all, He made the whole frikkin universe. He made those laws of physics so many hold so dear.
Sounds pretty fundy to me.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Hill Billy, posted 07-06-2009 5:12 PM Hill Billy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Hill Billy, posted 07-07-2009 1:57 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 309 of 384 (516075)
07-23-2009 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 308 by Peg
07-23-2009 5:46 AM


Re: Double standards?
people 'chose' to be slaves in those days
Slavery in the bible meant employment, they were a part of the owners household, they often were allowed to marry the owners sons, they became part of the family...most importantly, their time as a slave was limited to 6 years, in the 7th they were to be set free. Slaves could also become wealthy along side their owners.
Again it needs to be pointed out that this is a very selective reading of the bible.
quote:
When you buy a Hebrew slave, six years shall he serve; and in the seventh shall he go out free, for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and the children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. And if the slave shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: then his master shall bring him unto God, and he shall bring him to the door or unto the door-post, and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.
Exodus 21:2-6.
Notice it says Hebrew slave, male at that. What about all the non hebrew, non male slaves? Even from just this slight reading you can see that they were treated differently.
Slavery was and is a brutal practice. It doesn't matter how you rationalize the bible, it promotes and supports a brutal practice.
Maybe it would be ok for you and your family to agree to be enslaved. Even the new testament condones and promotes the master/slave relationship.
quote:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.
Ephesians 6:5-6.
By the way do you know anything about slavery in the Roman times? It was not pleasant

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Peg, posted 07-23-2009 5:46 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-23-2009 3:48 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 320 by Peg, posted 07-24-2009 3:04 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 319 of 384 (516155)
07-23-2009 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by Hyroglyphx
07-23-2009 3:48 PM


Re: Double standards?
Hebrews have always seen themselves as consecrated from the rest of society.
How do you think the non hebrew, non maleslaves were treated? I doubt they were able to leave after 6 years.
The most despised people of the day were neither slaves nor slavemasters. They were the people who couldn't find steady labor.
Evidence please. Please show me some historical documentation that says slaves were not poorly thought of? Across the years slaves have been denigrated. One of the ways slavery works in a society is that it gives the lowest of the low a class of people to look down upon. As for your comment about "people that couldn't find steady labor". These people were the norm not the exception in many societies. Laborers were the back bone of most earlier societies. They worked when there was work and starved when there wasn't. You seem to have a very elitist view of history.
but what you read about in the last days of slavery was usually nothing like it was thousands of years before this.
Again some evidence to back up this statement.
I guess I didn't realize young girls liked beig sold into slavery to be raped. The term "to them for their wives" is a euphemism for rape.
That's because you aren't aware of what slavery meant in those days or perhaps even how the slavetrade worked only a few hundred years ago.
Oh really? How do you know what I know and don't know. Please do not accuse me of being unaware if you have no historical evidence to back your claim. In all my years of reading and studying, the only sources I have come across extolling the virtues of slavery have been written by the slave owners. Oh and the bible. I don't think either is particularly objective.
Most slaves were sold by their own people,
Wrong. Most slaves historical have come from conquest. In Africa the Arabs were the prime drivers of the slave trade. They continued this up until the last century. You may have noticed that you don't see many people that are descendants of slaves that are Arabic. Did people at times sell their own people into slavery? Yes assuredly so. But to make the above comment is ridiculous. You really should be careful with using absolutes like "most".
because they were slaves back in their own country before they were slaves in another.
I would really like to know your source for this tidbit.
Have you read anything on the slave trade? Have you ever read any ancient history? any history at all?
Slavery is, was and always has been a brutal practice. It is especially brutal for the women and children that were enslaved. Women AND children were raped and molested with no recourse. Slavery was used to provide labor for the most horrendous of jobs. The jobs free people did not want to do. Yes you can find stories about slaves that got wealthy or were well treated by their masters or even found their way out. These are by far the exception. Most slaves worked and died a brutal life and death.
If you want to provide some source that disputes this by all means I am willing to look at it. I suggest you do some studying on the topic.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-23-2009 3:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 322 of 384 (516206)
07-24-2009 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 320 by Peg
07-24-2009 3:04 AM


Re: Double standards?
but we aren't talking about roman slaves
No we aren't. We are talking about a time that was earlier and even more brutal.
Do you know any history at all? other than the pseudo history of the bible?
Life for most people was tough and brutal, the life of a slave was even worse.
If slavery was so damn wonderful, why did the Israelites flee Egypt?
If you have any historical evidence at all, showing that there was some sort of benevolent slavery, please present it. BUt I am sure all you have for evidence is your bible.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by Peg, posted 07-24-2009 3:04 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Peg, posted 07-24-2009 6:15 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9197
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 327 of 384 (516217)
07-24-2009 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by Peg
07-24-2009 6:15 AM


Re: Double standards?
they didnt flee
OK. I really need to read your explanation and rationalization for this one.
Running form Pharaoh's men would be called active fleeing.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Peg, posted 07-24-2009 6:15 AM Peg has not replied

  
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