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Author Topic:   Fulfilled Prophecy
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 303 (374839)
01-05-2007 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by fallacycop
01-03-2007 11:07 PM


Re: SOON, IN A THEATER NEAR YOU, BUZ`S PREDICTIONS FOR 2007 (MAY BE?)
If you want to actually convince anybody of the bible`s prophetic power why don`t you accept my chalenge and give us some predictions of what might happen in 2007 based in your interpretations of the bible`s prophecies? A year from now we could look back at them and see how they compare with reality.
Probably because, 1. Buz does not have the gift of prophecy and, 2. because that's not how prophecy operates.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by fallacycop, posted 01-03-2007 11:07 PM fallacycop has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by anglagard, posted 01-05-2007 10:16 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 74 by fallacycop, posted 01-05-2007 10:50 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 303 (374844)
01-05-2007 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by anglagard
01-05-2007 10:16 PM


Re: SOON, IN A THEATER NEAR YOU, BUZ`S PREDICTIONS FOR 2007 (MAY BE?)
quote:
Buz does not have the gift of prophecy
My point exactly, glad you said it. Maybe he'll listen to you because judging by his boycott of my posts, he apparently considers my soul beyond redemption according to his standards.
The gift of prophecy means just what it sounds like, its a gift, by God, where He bestows on that individual some capacity to prophesy. I don't think Buz has ever given a prophecy, but rather, is giving his discourse on the interpretations of those prophecies that have already been prophesied.
I can't say with complete certainty who is right and who is wrong here because I just got around to dealing with this thread. From the little I have seen, Buz seems to be offering his analysis on the scriptures in question. I should add that his interpretation is not far off from the majority of Christian scholarship. Some people here are making Buz out to be coming up with some off-the-wall interpretations. I haven't seen that. From the little I have read it seems sound, doctrinally.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by anglagard, posted 01-05-2007 10:16 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 01-05-2007 11:18 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 77 by arachnophilia, posted 01-06-2007 12:36 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 78 by anglagard, posted 01-06-2007 2:47 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 80 by PaulK, posted 01-06-2007 4:44 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 303 (374936)
01-06-2007 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by fallacycop
01-05-2007 10:50 PM


Re: SOON, IN A THEATER NEAR YOU, BUZ`S PREDICTIONS FOR 2007 (MAY BE?)
How is it supposed to operate then?
I believe it was either you or someone else who challenged Buzsaw to prophesy what events would transpire in 2007. As a response I was saying that prophecy doesn't work on demand, nor are specific dates given.
A lot of prophetic naysayers argue that because no specific dates are mentioned it remains cryptic and vague. And if we wait around long enough, eventually the prophecy will fulfill itself all on its own. But lets think for a moment why no specific dates are ever given. Specific dates ruin the integrity of the prophecy by creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. The second, and most important reason is, if people knew the day and the hour when the Lord would come, they would be ready. That's the wrong attitude. You can't live like hell your entire life without the hopes that your 'reserve chute' is gonna back your play. You should start preparing the moment of your conversion, rather than changing your mind just in case this Christian stuff is actually true.
Even after the future that the prophecy talks about becomes past, it still isn`t possible to have an agreement on wheather the prophecy was fullfilled or not.
Lets look at one off the top of my head. Lets examine Matthew 24. Jesus here tells His disciples that the Temple was going to be thrown down and that not stone was going to be left on top of another. In 66 AD, the Jewish revolt to overthrow the yoke of Roman rule was underway. By the year 70 AD the Romans destroyed the Temple completely and the Diaspora had begun. The destruction is recorded just as Jesus had said because its reputed that the Roman, knowing the Temple was full of gold, sought heat up the huge stone slabs with incredible heat in order to melt the gold.
Naysayers claim that the book of Matthew and Mark were written after 70 AD which wouldn't have made it a prediction, but a postdiction. Or if Jesus had really mentioned it before, it was not annotated ahead of the destruction so that its reputation is in question.
The prophecies are so vague as to be impossible to decide what they actually mean.
Give me an example and of what you think is vague and we can examine it step by step using biblical and extra-biblical sources.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by fallacycop, posted 01-05-2007 10:50 PM fallacycop has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 303 (374943)
01-06-2007 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by arachnophilia
01-06-2007 12:36 AM


Re: the gift
in your opinion, do the people who write for newspaper horoscopes have this gift of prophecy? why or why not?
I would opine that they do not have the gift of prophecy. I would say that they are trying to tell people what they want to hear. Case in point, I'm a Gemini. Every month, the soothsayers give a prediction for Gemini's, apparently all of them, that they will meet the love of their life, or what have you. (I'm just using a generic example). That means everyone born between May 21 and June 20 will mysteriously meet the love of their life the month of the prophecy. But, hmmmm? That isn't the case is it? And interestingly enough, another astrology columnist in some other part of the world will give a completely different prediction. Which one is right?
even the quote-mining?
I have read any posts of quote mining or anyone claiming him to be quote mining. I would have to see an example of the allegation and in context.
it's sad that stripping context and meaning from verses, and re-applying them to whatever you see fit is considered sound doctrine these days. but i suppose it always has been, hasn't it? afterall, look at how many times matthew does it. nothing new under the sun, i suppose.
How does Matthew do strip the context to mean whatever he wants it to? I'd have to see an example and analyze it from there.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by arachnophilia, posted 01-06-2007 12:36 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by arachnophilia, posted 01-06-2007 2:19 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 303 (374953)
01-06-2007 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by anglagard
01-06-2007 2:47 AM


Re: SOON, IN A THEATER NEAR YOU, BUZ`S PREDICTIONS FOR 2007 (MAY BE?)
Yes Buz is interpreting the Bible for our benefit since it appears in his own mind that he speaks for God and us mere mortals are too stupid to actually read and properly understand it.
I see that Buz is giving his interpretation on the matter, not calling anyone stupid. Consequently, I have seen his detractors speaking poorly about his beliefs. And even supposing that an unbeliever read the prophecies, they may not understand them in full. That doesn't mean the unbeliever is dumb or anything like that. Though seeing, they may not see. Though hearing, they may not hear or understand. Its really about discernment, not intellect.
When, if ever, will the authoritarian fundies show the proper respect for their preferred deity over temporal rulers of such false interpretation? How many warnings concerning false prophets in the Bible does it take for the message to stick?
A false prophet is someone claiming to give a prophecy from God, when it didn't come from God. The implication is that they are secretly aware that they are full of bs, but don't divulge that information because they covet power. So they feign the gift of prophecy in order to inflate their own self-worth.
If one has respect for God, shoudn't such respect extend to the point where one is allowed to actually think about what is said in the Bible rather than violate the literal warning against false prophets?
Everybody who forms an opinion thinks they are right. No one goes out seeking to be wrong. What they do is to try and assert that they are actually right and that their opposition is actually wrong. Someone interpreting scriptures may believe that they are interpreting correctly. The other person thinks that they are the ones interpreting it correctly. One or both parties can conceivably be wrong, but only one of them can conceivably be right in accordance to the law of non-contradiction.
Chapter and verse - where does the Bible predict television? Please show a specific quote.
Nowhere in the Bible, that I'm aware of, does it predict the television. However, the book of Revelation makes allusions towards it when it says that the Two Witnesses will be seen by every nation. Well, how can every nation be in the same place simultaneously? There's obviously some physical problems with that. However, since the advent of the television, podcasting, satellites, etc, all nations can view the same thing at the same time-- likely something that John the Revelator could not wrap his mind around at the time.
"I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth... Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. (After 1,260 passes from the time they began)
"Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial." -Revelation 11
So, the Bible does not mention television outright, only possible allusions of it. Its just one of those things that is only now conceivable because of the increase of technology. Why do you ask?

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by anglagard, posted 01-06-2007 2:47 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by arachnophilia, posted 01-06-2007 2:28 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 92 by anglagard, posted 01-06-2007 3:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 95 by PaulK, posted 01-06-2007 5:58 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 303 (375013)
01-06-2007 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by arachnophilia
01-06-2007 2:19 PM


Re: the gift
i bet that in any given month, a gemini somewhere in the world meets the love of their life. and the completely different prediction is also true, though maybe for a different gemini.
But that isn't a prediction, that's a game of odds which anyone is capable of doing. I predict that Aries will meet the love of their life in September. Did I make a prediction or am I just playing odds? And you also have to take into consideration how many times have those horoscopes failed.
read the posts on the book of nahum again.
I haven't read any thread concerning Nahum the first time.
buz is taking one little tiny reference in a chapter that is about the destruction of nineveh and applying it to something entirely different. that's quote-mining, when the context contradicts the use of the smaller quote.
I will read it and give you my opinion on the application, not that I'm the authority on the matter, but I'll tell you straight up how I feel about it.
zechariah predicts that the messiah will ride into jerusalem on a donkey, through the east gate. jesus rides into jerusalem on a donkey, through the east gate. therefor jesus=messiah, right? matthew would have us believe that this is the qualifier, that riding in on a donkey makes one the messiah.
but if you think about, "riding a donkey" is rather meaningless. donkeys are quite commonly owned by lots of peasant, hundreds of thousands of which would enter jerusalem every year for passover.
Here's some homework for you. When Jesus rides in on the donkey, what do the people say and do? Is it Matthew drawing inferences that don't exist, the people, or was the prophecy legitimately fulfilled?
what matthew has done is stripped the context of the verse. the very next verse in zechariah (where matthew quotes the prophecy) gives us the effective definition of the messiah:
quote:
And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall speak peace unto the nations; and his dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.
and so on. it goes on to describe how the people of judah, led by the messiah and the lord himself, will conquer their enemies, and rule the world. the messiah will bring peace, because no one would have any hope fighting against him. clearly, this is not what happened with jesus, is it? he did not militarily conquer the planet, and force peace on everyone.
Heh. Not yet. This is the most common reason why the majority of Jews don't believe that Jesus has fulfilled the Messianic criteria. You and I have already gone over this in great detail. You are not understanding the difference and similarity between Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiac ben David. It has always been assumed that they are two different people, as you will read in the article provided. But I propose that they are the same person coming at two different times-- namely, Yeshua.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by arachnophilia, posted 01-06-2007 2:19 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by arachnophilia, posted 01-07-2007 3:02 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 303 (375023)
01-06-2007 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by arachnophilia
01-06-2007 2:28 PM


Re: false prophecy
if a prophecy is given (quite clearly) and one misrepresents it so as to make it mean something else, how is this not a false prophecy?
If a person knowingly espouses a false doctrine, there is little doubt that its sin. Do you think that Buz is intentionally misleading people or that he believes in his interpretations?
but it's ok if they don't know that they are full of bs? what if they are willfully ignorant that they are full of bs?
What if its you that's unaware that you're full of bs? Does the context change? Are you a false prophet if you misinterpret prophecy?
and clearly, a lot christian leaders covet power.
Yes, clearly there is. And they are going to have to answer to God for that.
when one position is contradicted by simply reading the text itself, which position is right?
The right answer is the right answer, because truth is truth.
quote:
the Bible does not mention television outright, only possible allusions of it.
i don't see it. it doesn't say everyone, just people from everywhere. if you or i used that colloquially, no one would think we meant "everyone on the planet" just a "large and diverse group of people." at best, representatives. couldn't this verse be predicting the UN?
UN members from every nation, every tribe, and every language is going to be present in Jerusalem on the same street corner as the slain Witnesses' is one theory. That seems far more implausible than everyone will be able to view their deaths on television. But then again, believing that its going to be aired on television or seen by members of the UN, or whatever other theory is just that-- theoretical. I seriously doubt that God is going to send anyone to eternal damnation if one or both of us doesn't fully understand a cryptic passage.
The central message of the passage seems to me that two witnesses are called by God to preach the Word. There are all sorts of theories about these two people, not just this one part of the passage that we are currently tunnel-visioned with.
Who are they? Some think its Enoch and Elijah. Why? Because it is said that all men are called to die the first death. Both of them are reputed as being raptured. Another theory is that it is Elijah and Moses, because that's who accompanied Jesus during His transfiguration. Does it really matter who it is? It seems to me the importance is that they are from God, speaking on behalf of God, and will die preaching for God. That seems to be the focus.
Television, the UN, who they are exactly, etc, are just theories because the truth is, we only have so much to go by. Personally, I think it sounds reasonable that it is possibly speaking about television or maybe even some other technology that we currently have yet to discover. But that's just an inference. I doubt highly that my salvation hinges upon it.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by arachnophilia, posted 01-06-2007 2:28 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by arachnophilia, posted 01-07-2007 2:47 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 303 (375044)
01-06-2007 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by anglagard
01-06-2007 3:25 PM


Re: SOON, IN A THEATER NEAR YOU, BUZ`S PREDICTIONS FOR 2007 (MAY BE?)
The reason I ask is that this prophecy business clearly shows that literal inerrantists are claiming they can use the Bible to mean television, when it does not clearly say television.
Buz never said that it meant television, only that he believes it makes allusions towards it. I happen to agree. That doesn't mean that we're right or wrong. Maybe we'll all get to find out for certain real soon.
Yet when someone says the six days of creation may be interpreted as something other than six literal days, the literal inerrantist has a cow.
They believe in the six day creation because its a lot more clear than the Revelation prophecy that might be making inferences that its speaking about television.
The position held by these fundies appears to be that the Bible says whatever they want it to say and everyone who disagrees will be roasting in hell.
Or that's what you want to believe because its easier to hate someone who treats you poorly than someone who genuinely cares about your disposition. Here's a hint though: You won't go to hell if you don't think that extremely cryptic passage is talking about television. You'll "roast" in hell if you deny your own sins and refuse to accept the only acceptable propitiation for them.
The justification is that they are better than anyone else at interpreting the Bible because they have God-like powers of perception while others are mere fallible mortals.
Again, this sounds like your only misunderstanding which doesn't constitute a failure on either my part or Buzsaw's. I don't have God-like powers of perception, nor am I infallible, nor am I inherently immortal. Even supposing I was, God still gets all the glory, Amen.
No wonder such fundies often feel it is OK to lie, cheat, steal, blasphemy and even kill by proxy. Since the Bible says whatever they want it to say, no strictures, such as commandments, apply to them, only to others.
Name me one that feels its ok to lie, cheat or steal, etc. Not one of them. Even the worst of them don't believe that. However, many of them do live a duplicitous life, including myself at times. But none of them exonerate that behavior which is why they attempt to do it clandestinely. Why? Because they know its wrong.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by anglagard, posted 01-06-2007 3:25 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 01-06-2007 11:53 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 102 by sidelined, posted 01-07-2007 12:18 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 104 by anglagard, posted 01-07-2007 1:11 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 113 by arachnophilia, posted 01-07-2007 3:30 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 303 (375068)
01-07-2007 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by PaulK
01-06-2007 5:58 PM


Re: SOON, IN A THEATER NEAR YOU, BUZ`S PREDICTIONS FOR 2007 (MAY BE?)
It DOESN'T say that "every nation" will watch it. It says that people FROM every nation will see it.
The difference would be?
It says that these smae people will refuse them burial - how will people watching a television thousands of miles away be in a position to have any say in their burial ? It doesn't need televsion, just a cosmopolitan city with a wide variety of foreign visitors.
It says that people's from all lands and backgrounds will despise these two men. And it says that they will "send" gifts because of what they had done all over the earth.
It's not the unbelievers who are having problems with the Bible - it is the self-styled beleivers who seem unable or unwilling to actually pay attention to what the Bible says.
I'm giving you my opinion on the matter. Buz is giving you his opinion on the matter. You seem to be dead set on it not referring to television which invariably makes you out to be the one thing you are claiming me to be. That's rather ironic. Wait, no, that's rather hypocritical. If its not making allusions to television, okay. That's fine. I won't get bent out of shape over it. Why are you mad because I gave my opinion on the matter?

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by PaulK, posted 01-06-2007 5:58 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by arachnophilia, posted 01-07-2007 3:06 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 303 (375070)
01-07-2007 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
01-06-2007 11:53 PM


Re: THANK YOU, NJ!!
My dear brother, Biblical creationists are blessed (abe: to) have the luxury of someone as willing as you are to take the heat in such a kindly, evenhanded and articulative manner in order to balance the ideological debates at EvC.
Well, it goes with the territory. I suppose at least were not being stoned to death..... yet.
It's usually one versus a host of counterparts as you have experienced. You're equal to a half dozen of them for our team. The word angel = Greek/Angelos = messenger. You, dear brother, imo, are a messenger whom God has sent to EvC town.
If I'm a messenger for God, I'm the least in line of prestigious names. I'm more like God's paperboy. Thank you for the kind words, nonetheless. In a sea of people at enmity with me, its good to have you by my side.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 01-06-2007 11:53 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 303 (375224)
01-07-2007 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by anglagard
01-07-2007 1:11 AM


Re: Ten Well Known Examples
quote:
Name me one that feels its ok to lie, cheat or steal, etc. Not one of them. Even the worst of them don't believe that.
Here is a list of 10 to start with
Interestingly, you neglected the following statement in my post, which says:
quote:
However, many of them do live a duplicitous life, including myself at times. But none of them exonerate that behavior which is why they attempt to do it clandestinely. Why? Because they know its wrong.
I said that not one, whether they live a duplicitous life or not, tell others that its okay to steal, fornicate, lie, etc. Of course there are those that live a duplicitous life, but they don't go around telling others that its a-okay.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by anglagard, posted 01-07-2007 1:11 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by anglagard, posted 01-07-2007 11:53 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 135 of 303 (375227)
01-07-2007 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by arachnophilia
01-07-2007 2:47 AM


Re: false prophecy
i suspect that he is willfully ignorant. he wants to believe his claims, and refuses to hear anything different.
Couldn't we assume the same for everyone that doesn't agree with our particular brand of philosophy?
i am fully aware that i am full of bs. it's why i'm especially good at catching other people who are.
Are you saying that you have knowingly proposed falsehoods in the past?
i am strictly vouching for the plain and obvious meaning of the text, as written by the prophets. anyone who can actually read should be able to see that i am not misrepresenting anything.
You have given your opinion, as have I, as has Buz, as has everyone. There's only one way to know who is right with empirical certainty-- and that's when the veracity of God is revealed. Oh but see, even that's my opinion as some would say, "Well, I don't believe that God exists so you can't say there is only one way." And I would say, "Okay. Then we'll just see what see."
cryptic and tautological.
That was the intent given the dialogue.
but the fact is if i say "the bible predicts x" when anyone reading the text can clearly see that the bible really says y, i am not right.
Unfortunately, clarity is seldom understood by all. To me, nature is obviously the handiwork of an intelligent designer. But my detractors would say, oh contraire. In which case, we're right back to square one.
if i talk about how the tower of babel really represents the evil lord xenu's intent to confuse man with religion, or the flood the atom bombs he killed all our alien ancestors with, or how original sin is really refering to body thetans... therefor the bible predicts scientology, would you agree with me?
That would depend on whether or not my e-meter was working properly. Heh.
i think you're over-reading.
I think I'm the only one not over-reading. I've said numerous times that the passage is rather cryptic, but I would say that it makes allusions towards a technology not known from the past. But, if you want to challenge that, feel free. It really doesn't matter either way to me.
revelation is, itself, not actually prophecy. rather, it is a vision given to john. visions are one way god communicates with people, prophecy is another.
Seems to me that the book is entirely prophetic in nature.
take for example my mention of joseph and pharaoh above. the dreams that pharaoh had were visions, but the interpretation and advice given by joseph were prophecy. see the difference?
No. Especially when the vision was given in order to prophesy future events.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by arachnophilia, posted 01-07-2007 2:47 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by arachnophilia, posted 01-08-2007 12:54 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

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