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Author Topic:   Fulfilled Prophecy
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 303 (373808)
01-02-2007 7:37 PM


In the "Ancient ice shelf breaks free in Arctic - Signs of the end?"
I noted corroborating prophecies to bolster Lysimachus's suggestion that the ice melt was a sign of the latter days predicted by Jesus and the prophets of the Bible. I was challenged by some to substantiate my claims of corroborating fulfilled prophecies as evidence of the credence of the Biblical account.
So lets in this thread discuss some of those prophecies. We'll begin with the prophecies implying the emergence in the latter days of the industrial revolution.
1. Travel will increase. Of course, the horse was the fast road for humans for all the milleniums until the emergence of the industrial revolution. Prophecies implying increase of and faster travel:
Daniel 12:4 (about 530BC) Daniel says: "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
Item: increase of knowledge and travel.
Fast chariots/wheeled vehicles, auto wrecks, torches equate combustion, et al. Nah. 2:3, 4 --"The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken. The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings."
link writes:
In 1927 in Signs of the Times, John Lewis Shuler wrote: "Sir Isaac Newton made a most daring forecast two hundred years ago regarding a future development in rapid transit, which at that time seemed absolutely beyond the possibility of ever seeing realization. Newton declared that he was convinced from a study of Bible prophecy that there was destined to be a marvelous increase in the speed of transportation on the earth.
“”I believe,’ Newton said, ”that in the providence of God, though the method now be entirely hidden, men will yet travel on the earth at the rate of fifty miles an hour.’ Newton lived from 1642-1727. In his day the most rapid travel by land was by horse. Stagecoaches drawn about eight miles an hour by horses held the record on land."
I imagine that many would have thought that Newton was crazy when he based such a wild prophecy for his day on what he had read in the Bible. He was certainly right, even if he grossly underestimated the speed at which people would travel in the future. Imagine if he could have seen our day when thousands of people are flying daily across the world at speeds more like 500 mph., not to mention the incredible speed that astronauts travel when circling the earth and/or fly to the moon.
Signs of the Times
Computer tech and cashless money and TV et al:
Revelation 13:14 to 17
Rev writes:
14And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast who hath the stroke of the sword and lived. 15And it was given unto him to give breath to it, even to the image to the breast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; 17and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name.
The below cited scriptural prophecy also implies world government where all nations are imposed upon by the events cited.
Revelation 13:7-10 writes:
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and apower was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the abook of life of the bLamb slain from the cfoundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that akilleth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the bpatience and the faith of the csaints.
There are other scriptural prophecies implying world government.
There are scores of prophecies in the OT and others in the NT indicating Israels rebirth as as nation in the latter days, including the Olivet Discourse in Luke 21.
These are starters. Other members may cite other examples in this thread. It's open to discussion on the prophecies in general.
Biblical Accuracy and Inerrancy please.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 12:07 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 5 by iceage, posted 01-03-2007 12:55 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 10 by iceage, posted 01-03-2007 2:16 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2007 2:28 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 13 by crashfrog, posted 01-03-2007 11:37 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 15 by sidelined, posted 01-03-2007 7:56 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 35 by fallacycop, posted 01-03-2007 11:07 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 48 by Straggler, posted 01-04-2007 7:54 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 01-04-2007 11:23 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 55 by anglagard, posted 01-04-2007 10:47 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 303 (374168)
01-03-2007 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
01-03-2007 12:07 AM


Re: Not Prophecy but rather Nonsense.
jar writes:
NOTHING to do with cash.
NOTHING to do with TV.
NOTHING to do with Computer Tech.
......... No where does it say anything about a cash less society or anything related to cash, nothing about computers or computer tech, nothing about tv.
This is the kind of absolute irrelevant fantasies brought up by the End Time Crazies and should just be laughed at.
It is embarrassing that a Christian would post something that makes Christians look so stupid.
Jar, to begin with cut the personal stuff and stick to refuting if that's what you intend to do. If you persist in this, moderation may be called for.
1. I didn't say cash less. I said cashless, just as the prophecy implies. The global monetary systems are continuously becoming more cashless and computerized with numbers and marks, et all. You cannot deny that. It is also becoming more essential to produce your social security number in order to buy and sell, cash or no cash. Here in NY you can't get a tax resale permit without the number and in fact the number becomes your resale certificate number. If you sell as a merchant, you need the number to account to the government for the tax you owe on it, et al.
2. TV is also implied. It is indeed a speaking image. So is your computer. There is an ever increasing electronic economy with buying and selling on the internet. This also requires a credit card with numbers on it et al.
I failed to mention also regarding TV that there are at least three scriptures which clearly imply TV and other electronic image/speaking media. These are Revelation 11:8-12 where the peoples of the nations view the dead bodies of two men at one location. Revelation 18:9-18 depicts the kings/rulers of the earth and the shipmasters far off viewing the smoke of the city, mystery Babylon which is destroyed in one hour, implying both electronic media/speaking image and explosives which can destroy a city in one hour. The third is that all will see Jesus coming in the clouds when he comes. All three of these were impossible until after the industrial revolution and the emergence of TV and other electronic media.
3. I failed also to mention that the ten horned beast of Revelation 13 is interpreted as global kings/rulers who rule as kings, implying great authority in Revelation 17 and in similar wording in Daniel 7.
4. These events are all clearly designated by scripture as to be fulfilled in the latter days of the earth before the 2nd advent of Christ Jesus.
5. These corroborate other end time prophecies such as the ones in Daniel and global warming prophecies. These are also themselves corroborated by other prophecies such as global warming, return of Jews, et al. So it's not one or two isolated prophecies we're talking. It's a whole lot of them corroborating each another.
6. If you do your homework on the prophecies, correlating scripture with scripture et al, they do indeed make sense. You're the novice trying to tell the one who's done the homework that they're nonsense. That's like an elementary student trying to tell a PHD in math his stuff is nonsense.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 12:07 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 8:03 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 01-03-2007 8:43 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 46 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2007 2:39 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 303 (374174)
01-03-2007 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Taz
01-03-2007 12:38 AM


Re: Obscurity Of Speech
TD writes:
I have no idea why people of the past (or even present day prophets) communicate in such obscure manner. The second way I could have told you about the premonition could be interpreted as a comet, meteor, missile, etc. Why not just say I saw a plane crashing into a building?
Perhaps I can suggest a sensible reason why God does this to prophecies and why Jesus spoke in parables, et al.
God told the Israelites of old via the prophet Jeremiah: 12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29:12-13)
Perhaps God purposefully obscures revelation for those who seek him, seek his revelation and who choose to obey and honor him and work at seeking out his truth. The Bible is not a read through book. It's a life study book. It's a manual the maker has furnished the intelligent creature he has made so as to know how to operate efficiently in the life the creator has so wonderfully designed. It's also a history of the past and a revelation of the future, covering all in all from beginning to end so as for God's people not to be in the dark but children of light, having the knowledge of where the world came from and where it's going.
In another verse somewhere it says the eyes of Jehovah go throughout the earth looking for those who's heart is true to him in order to show himself strong on their behalf. To enjoy the blessings of God one must assume the responsibilities required by God.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Taz, posted 01-03-2007 12:38 AM Taz has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 303 (374192)
01-03-2007 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by iceage
01-03-2007 12:55 AM


Re: Standard of Specificity
iceage writes:
The allegedly prophetic content here is:
"Many shall run to and fro". Oh come on ... I would not even put this in the weak to very weak category.
"and knowledge shall be increased". Now that is right up there with Pat Robertson. Knowledge has increased since the advent of written languages... Duh.
The prophecy isolated does become insignificant. In context it does not. The prophecy in context depicts it as something phenomenal to emerge to high escalation in the end time. Here we are with corroborating prophetic end time stuff such as the phenomenal return of Jews to Israel and with a super-phenomenal increase in both travel and knowledge. Read it with all the endtime events beginning to come to pass and it becomes very significant.
Yes, knowledge has increased, but like a train beginning to move slowly it picks up speed gradually to eventually speed down the track to destination. That's the way knowledge has increased from day one of humanity. The significance of the increase has not been achieved until the industrial revolution. With that increase of knowledge, finally comes the fast track with combustion engines et al and the messianic kingdom, Israel in place for the return of the messiah Jesus exactly as prophesied.
Here is a list of 10 OT prophesies of the what is emerging in Israel:
10 Bible prophecies fulfilled recently
These are fulfilled messianic prophecies concerning Jesus:
http://www.messianic-prophecy.net

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by iceage, posted 01-03-2007 12:55 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by iceage, posted 01-03-2007 8:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 47 by Brian, posted 01-04-2007 3:11 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 303 (374219)
01-03-2007 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by crashfrog
01-03-2007 8:43 PM


Re: Not Prophecy but rather Nonsense.
crashfrog writes:
If you've done your homework, how come you didn't know that cashless, ledger-based transactions were commonplace in Bible times?
1. Cite them and we'll discuss them and compare them to the significance and extent of what is going on now. When Jesus paid his taxes by extracting coin/s from a fish and when he had the Pharasees show him a coin, no paper there. I'm not saying they didn't use some paper for different purposes. I'm talking by and large, coinage.
2. They never ever became significant. Coinage and hard asset and money has been the norm all through the centuries.
3. No corroborating fulfillments back then.
4. Paper promisary notes and paper backed by gold, silver, et al not what is prophesied. What is prophesied is numbers and marks with no indication of backing as we are experiencing. Even our cash bills were suppose to be nothing but promisary notes which could be turned in for gold/silver. Not so any more.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 01-03-2007 8:43 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 01-03-2007 9:18 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 31 by crashfrog, posted 01-03-2007 9:51 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 303 (374223)
01-03-2007 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
01-03-2007 8:48 PM


Not Money.
If you've done your homework, how come you didn't know that cashless, ledger-based transactions were commonplace in Bible times?
This was an accounting document and does not appear to be the actual payment of the transaction. It's simply a written document depicting a transaction. I doubt very much that the folks back then were foolish enough to accept chunks of clay for cows. LOL!
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 8:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 9:14 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 303 (374236)
01-03-2007 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
01-03-2007 2:28 AM


Re: Buz comes up swinging again.
I don't know about you but when I "run" I do so on foot. Nobody tuns while mounted on a horse or in a car.
My wife runs all over town in her car on shopping days. Haven't you ever ran down to the store or to the gas station in your car? Why heck, George Wallace ran for office in a wheel chair.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2007 2:28 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2007 2:11 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 303 (374241)
01-03-2007 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
01-03-2007 9:14 PM


Re: Not Money.
They're emerging payments involving numbers and marks, unbacked by things of value like gold/silver which are what should be expected before emerging into computerized cashless entries in bank accounts. The forging and theft problems of these payment means are escalating to the point that it would make sense having marks or number chips in ones head or hand for transactions for security purposes. This is becoming more of a reality. I often fill my car with gas without even seeing the recipiant of the payment as do millions of others. It's all on paper. Soon cash will be no more is my prediction. Maybe this ole man will see it before I die, maybe not. Imo, God willing, it is feasable (abe: whereas a mere century ago it wasn't.)
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 9:14 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 9:48 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 33 by crashfrog, posted 01-03-2007 10:40 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 303 (374243)
01-03-2007 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
01-03-2007 9:22 PM


Re: Intrinsic Value.
Before inflation, they were metals of value which had to be mined and which even when melted had intrinsic value.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 9:22 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by DrJones*, posted 01-03-2007 10:05 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 42 by Vacate, posted 01-04-2007 12:37 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 303 (374272)
01-03-2007 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by DrJones*
01-03-2007 10:05 PM


Re: Intrinsic Value.
DrJones writes:
Gold only has the value that we give it. There is no intrinsic value.
The value we give it is it's intrinsic value.
"In numismatics, intrinsic value is the value of the metal, typically a precious metal, in a coin. For example, if gold trades at a price of USD 450 per fine troy ounce ($14/g), a coin minted from one troy ounce of fine gold would have an intrinsic value of USD 450."
Intrinsic value - Wikipedia
Another example: If you trade gold options on the commodity market, an out of the money option would have no intrinsic value whereas an in the money option would have some intrinsic value depending on how far in the money your option is to determine the intrinsic value of the gold the option would bring.
It's somewhat amusing but quite sad to see the extent Biblical skeptics will go to avoid acknowledgement of anything indicative of evidence for the existence of an intelligence beyond that of earthly humanity. Of course, I realize that for you secularists to acknowlege even one single bonafide fulfillment of prophecy would be tantamount to admitting the existence of God and the to lending credibility to his book.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by DrJones*, posted 01-03-2007 10:05 PM DrJones* has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 303 (374278)
01-03-2007 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jar
01-03-2007 10:43 PM


Re: Not Money.
It doesn't designate nor give details regarding the mark or the number. It implies that the mark, number or name of the beast/global government must be inclusive in one's identity for monetary transactions.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 10:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:30 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 44 by tsig, posted 01-04-2007 2:13 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 303 (374281)
01-03-2007 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by jar
01-03-2007 11:22 PM


Re: Diminishment Of The Bible.
Ahem Jar. You who implicate Jesus and the apostles all as liars and imposters who claim to have healed the sick, walked on water, prophesied et al and who essentially denies most of what is written in the book are pointing the finger at me for diminishing from the book? You have no shame, man. I pity you.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:35 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 303 (374572)
01-04-2007 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
01-03-2007 11:35 PM


Re: Buz misrepresents folk yet again
jar writes:
Buz, please point out where I implicate Jesus and the apostles all as liars.
If you cannot link to the post where I said that please retract your slander.
1. Have you or have you not in the past taken the position that the only miracles you believe actually happened were the virgin birth and the resurrection of Jesus as per the Nicene Creed?
2. Have you ever accepted any other miracle as authentic having actually occurred?
3. Do you now take the position that other miracles of the Bible, including the miracles of Jesus and the apostles may have actually happened?
I full well remember what your previous position has been on miracles in the past, though I don't know where to find it as it was quite a long time ago.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 01-04-2007 9:02 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 303 (374577)
01-04-2007 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
01-03-2007 11:30 PM


Re: Not Money.
jar writes:
It is VERY specific; "for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
The text says that one of understanding can count the number of the beast which was 666. It is obvious here that the number has some mystery about it which only someone of understanding can count it, implying that it may be some numerical code. Many Biblical scholars assign numbers to different beings. The number six is usually ascribed to man. I'm not sure how significant that it is. Apparently either the number a name or a mark must accompany each identification mark of the ones bearing the mark for commerce.
The thread is not for delving into unknowns regarding this. My point remains that what we see emerging appears to be a cashless monetary system as we observe a continuous diminishing of cash transactions as per the prophecy.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 01-03-2007 11:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 01-04-2007 9:14 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 303 (374584)
01-04-2007 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
01-03-2007 2:28 AM


Re: Buz comes up empty again.
PaulK writes:
Nahum is about the destruction of Nineveh (see Nahum 2:8) ! Again it is obviously not about the Industrial Revolution, but events long past when the Industrial Revolution occurred. (A quick check suggests 612 BC as the date !)
My point did not pertain to Nahum 2:8. If you read chapter one of the book you will see that the book deals with the latter days and a few verses before the verses I sited in the beginning of chapter two, Judah is mentioned. This is often the case in Biblical prophecy that the end time events come into play. Read chapter one verses three to six where some significant events also mentioned in the book of Revelation are aluded to, clearly referring to the events of the end time where the rivers dry up and much of the world is burned as are many people in it also. Ninevah is not actually honed in on until verse 8 of chapter 2.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2007 2:28 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by PaulK, posted 01-05-2007 2:30 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 70 by arachnophilia, posted 01-05-2007 8:54 PM Buzsaw has not replied

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