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Author Topic:   Contradictions: Hint that Genesis 1 and 2 are Allegorical
lpetrich
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 100 (37452)
04-21-2003 1:16 PM


Here's a fun theory I just thought of.

That the Biblical God had inspired the Bible's writers to compose two different creation stories that contradict each other on important details in order to give a hint that those stories are allegorical and not literal.

The same can be said of the differing accounts of Jesus Christ's resurrection -- they were made to contradict each other so as to indicate that that resurrection is something spiritual instead of physical.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by John, posted 04-21-2003 1:22 PM lpetrich has not yet responded
 Message 3 by drummachine, posted 04-21-2003 7:34 PM lpetrich has not yet responded
 Message 5 by Philip, posted 04-21-2003 9:58 PM lpetrich has not yet responded
 Message 11 by Paul, posted 04-22-2003 11:41 AM lpetrich has not yet responded
 Message 78 by Davidjay, posted 05-28-2017 9:30 AM lpetrich has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 100 (37453)
04-21-2003 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by lpetrich
04-21-2003 1:16 PM


I predict that you have a career in apologetics.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 100 (37481)
04-21-2003 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by lpetrich
04-21-2003 1:16 PM


lpetrich,

How does the Bible contradict itself? The gospels for example? Would you please explain to me why you believe Genesis 1 & 2 are different accounts?

Thank you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by lpetrich, posted 04-21-2003 1:16 PM lpetrich has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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John
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 100 (37488)
04-21-2003 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by drummachine
04-21-2003 7:34 PM


quote:
Would you please explain to me why you believe Genesis 1 & 2 are different accounts?

Well... one account occurred over a 7 day period while the other account took place in one day.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


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Philip
Member (Idle past 2165 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 5 of 100 (37497)
04-21-2003 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by lpetrich
04-21-2003 1:16 PM


Physical or Metaphysical
The resurrection is physical and metaphysical, no?
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Philip
Member (Idle past 2165 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 6 of 100 (37499)
04-21-2003 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by John
04-21-2003 8:20 PM


1 day vs. 7
The 2nd of Genesis seems (to me) to specify the 5th and 6th days, in the day the Lord created the heavens and the earth.

Day has different meanings in different contexts.

I don't see how either chapter can't be both semantically and metaphysically integrated as one cohesive whole of viewpoints, SANS the allegorical. (Not trying to beg definitions).

But, the resurrection itself seems to me a metaphysical reality, despite the fact that physical bodies are re-created out of decayed physical bodies.

Who denies proofs of restoration, resurrection, and/or redemptive mechanisms in Genesis 1 and 2? Certainly much of Genesis 1 and 2 foreshadows events of restoration, resurrection, and/or redemption in:

...(1) Natural events like: light, time, childbirth, developmental biology, etc.
...(2) A science and/or metaphysics of a Christ-and-Him-slain-buried-and-risen to purge-forgive-and-raise it all up.


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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 100 (37514)
04-22-2003 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by John
04-21-2003 8:20 PM


Genesis 2 is just a more in depth description of Genesis 1.
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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 100 (37521)
04-22-2003 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by drummachine
04-22-2003 1:59 AM


Then why do the creation events happen in a different order?
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lpetrich
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 100 (37525)
04-22-2003 4:41 AM


And furthermore, those differing creation orders are critical to the storylines of the two creation stories.

G1 is step-by-step, with God creating one thing at a time, and with humanity as God's last and best creation. God seems very happy with what he had done -- happy enough to take a day off, the first Sabbath Day there ever was.

In G1, anything created after humanity would be rather anticlimactic -- and both sexes are created at the same time.

However, in G2, God has to fix his creation as he goes. First he creates Adam, but Adam gets lonely. Then he creates lots of animals, but Adam is still not satisfied. Then he creates Eve, but though Adam becomes less lonely, a certain mischievous snake leads that couple astray. God must be rather exasperated at the end of that story.

In G2, it would not make sense for God to create Adam's most satisfactory companion, Eve, before the others.

There are other differences:

G1: God is elohim
G2: God is yhwh elohim, often translated as "the LORD God"

In G1, God is relatively distant, creating by commanding that this, that, and the other thing come into existence.

In G2, God is more down-to-earth, walking in the Garden of Eden, creating Adam from some dirt, and creating Eve from one of Adam's ribs.


  
John
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 100 (37541)
04-22-2003 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by drummachine
04-22-2003 1:59 AM


I love how you guys don't read your Bible. There are numerous discrepancies as several people have pointed out. If your child told you the same story twice and the differences between the two were as great as the differences between the two Genesis accounts, you'd know that child was lying or hiding something.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


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Paul
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 100 (37554)
04-22-2003 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by lpetrich
04-21-2003 1:16 PM


Interesting theory indeed. However, as stated, it is your personal theory and as much "fun" as it may be , it's far from the Biblical facts. There is no contradiction in the Genesis account of Ch's 1&2. Let's take a look. Please get your Bible out.

Gen. 2:4 is without a doubt a summary of the creative ages.

"(1) This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in (2) the day that the LORD God made earth and heavens. Gen. 2:4" NASB

As you can see, the first half or V 4 refers to the original creation of (1:1); the last half refers to the work of days 2, 3, and 4.

The first work was a "creation", and the second a "making or restoration" of the clouds in day 2, the earth(dry land) in day 3, and the solar system in day 4.

The words, "in the day" that God made the earth and the heavens(v4), gives us a commencement of a new section and a new narrative, complete in itself, to a great extent.

As we know, V 1:3-2:4 are the summary of the 6 days' work: and V 2:4-25 are a more detailed account of the work of days 2, 3, 5, and 6.

The "first narrative" clearly states "what" God did and embraces the universe and all things in it. The "second narrative" is mainly a description of "how" the work of days 2, 3, 5, and 6 was done.

We see in the "first" narrative that the Divine Being is called "Elohim", indicating creative relationship and infinite power. In the "second" narrative God is called "Jehovah-Elohim", which indicates covenant relationship and infinite power, so as to inspire man with implicit faith.

Hope this helps :-)

Paul :-)


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Replies to this message:
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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 100 (37589)
04-22-2003 2:33 PM


Adam was made from the dust. We are made of dirt and water. I believe its a beautiful picture of God making Eve from Adam's side. It shows how sacred marriage is to God. And who knows if Satan was a literal serpent because in other passages it talks about him being a cherubim, roaring lion, beast, dragon or the god of this age. I believe we see his rule on the world today. Just look at it. You look at occult practices like "channeling". People invite "spirit guides" into their lives. Its demonic, deceptive and very dangerous. But demonic powers are brought into ones life through many things. Hallucenogenic drugs have done great damage to people. They did to me. I have a friend that teaches martial arts. He said there is demonic powers in things like tai-chi and ninja magic. So Satan's kingdom is all around us. Almost every street in Portland there are bars, strip clubs or whatever. But its everywhere. Without a doubt the world is full of darkness.
  
lpetrich
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 100 (37755)
04-23-2003 10:14 PM


Paul's account seems very contrived and forced; by comparison, my reading of the text is much more straightforward.

And as to drummachine's view, here's an analysis I once did.

Our chemical composition is a poor match for dirt, which is essentially powdered rock with some decayed organic material. We have lots of hydrogen but essentially no silicon, while rocks are the opposite.

In fact, this discrepancy in chemical composition could be yet another clue that God has left that Genesis 1 and 2 are allegorical and not literal.

Here is the typical dry composition of a microbial cell, from this page:

(by weight, by number):

Carbon - 50% - 30%
Oxygen - 20% - 9%
Nitrogen - 14% - 7%
Hydrogen - 8% - 54%
Phosphorus - 3% - 0.7%
Sulfur - 1% - 0.2%

Potassium - 1% - 0.2%
Sodium - 1% - 0.3%
Calcium - 0.5% - 0.1%
Magnesium - 0.5% - 0.15%
Chlorine - 0.5% - 0.1%

Iron - 0.2% - 0.02%
Manganese - 0.05% - 0.006%
Copper - 0.05% - 0.005%

By comparison, seawater's most abundant non-water elements are sodium and chlorine, which are 10 times more abundant than the next one, magnesium.

Also by comparison, the Earth's crust has the approximate composition (from this source):

Oxygen - 46.6% - 62.5%
Silicon - 27.1% - 20.7%
Aluminum - 8.1% - 6.4%
Iron - 5% - 2.0%
Calcium - 3.6% - 1.9%
Sodium - 2.8% - 2.6%
Potassium - 2.6% - 1.4%
Magnesium - 2.1% - 1.9%
Titanium - 0.46% - 0.21%
Carbon - 0.19% - 0.34%


  
Karl
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 100 (37790)
04-24-2003 4:30 AM


Indeed.

The meaning of the "making man from the dust of the earth" story is that humans are part of the created order, made from the same stuff as the rest of the universe.

Not that we are literally made of soil. We are not.


  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1366 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 15 of 100 (37802)
04-24-2003 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Paul
04-22-2003 11:41 AM


There are some sequence disimilarities in the two
accounts, and in G1 it is implied that a whole race
of men and women were created rather than just the
Adam and Eve of G2.

My (dispasionate) opinion is that these two chapters
represent the creation myths of two different clans that
joined at some point. The myths were then combined into
one explanatory text (possibly with a few minor mods to make
them fit better) in order to bind the clans more closely
together.


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Replies to this message:
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