Passover Mystery

If you can't supply support for your position then no one is required to take you seriously.Also, since that is a bit curt you might want to add a smile rather than appear to be lowering the tone of debate.

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What goes? The Nose Knows!

Abshalom, I thank you so very much, I was a tad shocked by the remark and I am afraid I reacted harshly.Dear Adminnosy ,I deeply apologize but I was a tad offended by the pedantic remark....why can he be snippy and petty with no admonishment?Yet I get the wet noodle?IMHO the tone of the debate was already lowered by ConsequentAtheist. Adding my smiley....OK I am going to be more better I promise........NO need to pick on the new Gal on the block is there?Peace and all that jazz.[This message has been edited by Stormdancer, 01-09-2004]

Consequent Atheist, I do apologize to you for being curt.Now I am going to try this one more time.I see the posters of this message board as very intellectual, Much more talent here then I am capable of keeping up with, but I am going to give it my best shot.It is somewhat intimidating I must say.I can't even remember where I last posted, for heaven sake.OH by the by Athiest, I thought I did provide a link with the info. I posted, now I didn't have much time this morning, but I did find some interesting info on this subject. I will try to post later.The pedantic goddess......lol

And I should apologize to you for not including the pedantic rubbish remark. I guess technically it was directed at the posted material and not the individual but it is also just a little off.But all of us have to be not too thin skinned. eh?

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What goes? The Nose Knows!

Most of us here can't keep up with some of the specialists or those who are particularly fast thinking. So don't worry about it too much. Most of the experts are astonishly patient if you ask questions.The right approach is always to understand that you don't know everything.All of us at one time or another get a little dogmatic. It seems, to my eyes anyway, that the worst of those are the creationists who drop in here thinking that they can somehow come up with some overturn of the whole of science when 1,000s have been thinking through the problems for many decades. Ya gotta wonder.

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Common sense isn't

Over in the "Abel and His Flock" thread, Stormdancer offered this view, "Jews come in as younger brothers. They come in as barbaric Bedouins from the desert, into highly sophisticated agricultural areas, and they're declaring that although the others are the elders - as Cain was, the founder of cities and all that - they are God's favorite."To which Consequent Atheist replied, "Baseless sophistry. Note the glaring absence of evidence supporting this babble."So to supply at least a little support of Stormdancer's view, I offer:[M]mideen or Midianites , in the Bible, a nomadic Bedouin people of N Arabia in what is S Jordan. They were associated with the Moabites and the Israelites. Moses took refuge with them and married the daughter of their priest Jethro. They were defeated by the Hebrews after they gave refuge to Balaam, whose advice to the Midianites led to the disastrous Baal-peor incident. The defeat of the Midianites by Gideon became the precedent for God's final victory over his enemies.
Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition, Copyright (c) 2004."The Midianites consisted of a number of semi-nomadic and bedouin tribes, including Ishmaelites. They were connected with Abraham’s other sons (other than Isaac). They engaged in both caravan trade (Genesis 37.28) and despoiling any weaker than themselves, as well as herding sheep and goats (Exodus 2.15; 3.1). They dwelt in, and moved around in, the wilderness and desert from south of the Dead Sea to lands east of the Jordan (Genesis 25.2-6; 37.25 on; Exodus 3.1; Numbers 22.4, 7), and were fairly widespread. Because of what they had done to Israel some suffered at the hands of Israel (Numbers 25.16-18; 31.2, 7-12). Five Midianite chieftains, ‘the princes’ of Sihon, king of the Amorites, and thus his vassals and presumably fairly settled, were defeated by Moses in the approach to the land" (Joshua 13.21). Angelfire - error 403Genesis 25:2 "And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah."
However, the Midianites had intermarried with the Ishmaelites, and other nations, and mixed together, and took their heathen gods. These people were a Bedouin people, and it is important to know this, to understand what kind of people it is that conquered the Israelites. As Bedouins and wanderers, they are not soldiers and they were not well organized. When an organized army comes against any massive numbers of these wandering tent people, they will run from the danger. judges6And since my sources are nothing more than biblical references, I realize this additional information may just some more baseless, sophistic, unsupported folktales. But this just happens to be what Stormdancer, I, and others were enjoying a discussion about.Peace.

No smile on that somewhat pedantic thought, Ned? Thousands have also been thinking through the other interpretations of what is observed also, as well as the Biblical prophecies which have been addressed here.

We're getting badly off topic but are you talking about those who use "sorting" to explain the origin of the fossil record through the flood? Those who can't, after all their thinking about it, explain how the flood could sort things that way. Is that an example of the "thinking"? That or a large number of other issues? Sorry, it is actually a few 100 at most for about a century that have been very careful to NOT think about the issues.

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Common sense isn't

The serious searcher and thinkers of all ranges of knowledge concerning these matters. Take it for what it's worth and hopefully, back to topic.

You may pretend to humility all you wish. The question remains: do you or do you not have evidence for "Bedouin tribes of Hebrews invading Canaan"?

Hi.Could I ask a few questions concerning the claims made in your earlier post?You claim that I would suggest that there was no such thing as a Hebrew Conquest of Canaan at any time in history. I would also maintain that there is no 'plausible' date for the Exodus.Do you have any access to some information that suports a Hebrew conquest of Canaan at any time in history. I have rather a lot of contrary evidence and it would be beneficial to me personally if I could look at any information that you have as I may have to alter some work I have prepared, thanks. I would also maintain that there is no evidence that these two cities were ever occupied at the same time. Do you have evidence that they were, or are you quoting from an unsuported source? I would say that the 'invasion' was not military but was entirely peaceful and that the 'Hebrews' emerged from within Canaanite society, do you have any evidence of a new material culture brought into Canaan by these 'invading Hebrews'.I am not trying to be confrontational here, I am truly interested in what evidence you have for these claims. From what I have discovered in my own research I would say that these claims are about 50 years out of date, but I am willing to be corrected here.Cheers!Brian.

Brian, I just finished reading Dever's new book and was pleasantly surprised. It is far less a tirade against the 'minimalists' and more a reasoned (and, I believe, fairly effective) polemic against Finklestein's resedentarization hypothesis. You might consider adding it to your library.Now, back to the fray ...

about 50 years out of date,Are they?
OK thats good enough for me.UM forgive me but I don't have time to respond further, I hope to be able to later.TY

Brian the information was taken from ,DeMythologizing Religion with Joseph Campbell.Is that outdated?Brian what do you suggest I read?Some quick research on line has brought up some web pages I have only had time to scan,
such as,A Treatise on the Date of the ExodusWhat is reliable?I would love to read the information you have .I am really interested in is the ancient roots of religious beliefs.Please and Thank You, Brian.

CAtheist,The book you posted looks like it is exactly what I am looking for .TY