Prophesy or self delusion?

I'm not angry Sidelined, I'm just not going on fruitless hunts anymore. You see - you make the rules which will satisfy you, and none-believers agree upon none-believing rules. You miss the meat nibbling the fat in an attempt to make high and thick walls around yourselves - lest a prophecy gets through.I myself have shown true prophecy examples from Isaiah - I can also provide 118 prophecies from Isaiah - fulfilled in Christ. The next question should be about belief, but the unbelievers introduce doubt - which - kinda, ahem, stops progress where God is concerned --> According to Christ.Don't get me wrong, I'd like to believe you would buy into a prophecy from the bible - but experience at this site shows that it's never happened before, so I'm just being realistic here, but I am not angry at you I promise. Hindsight renders a guy called Dan. Ofcourse nothing would convince you. You also know that it's hard to come up with something extremely particular - infact I predict that you are counting on this.You see - if you say "vague and easily manipulated" - yet the Holy Spirit is giving the intepretation, who is wrong? The Holy Spirit who made man write it - or Sidelined?This is just the tip of the iceburg concerning self-knowledge - or self - righteousness. But don't be offended, just read your above quote. It has to satisfy you - it has to suffice your rules.....even over him who wrote it. So I mean no offense whatsoever, but rather - YOU say it is vague and manipulated, and none-believers agree.We say that these prophecies are true - and we have shown this.Do you expect me to agree with your side or something?

Really? Show that it was in fact fulfilled. You can start with proving that God exists. (God being a necessary component for the fulfillment of the prophecies of Isaiah.)I know, the last time I asked you to do this you alternately ignored it, or said there was simply nothing that would convince me. But what the heck, let's see if you can do better this time. What hindsight? I foresaw all this before it came to pass. Lo, harken unto me, my children, for I am the way and the light.I said you would ignore the two previous threads, and just repeat your initial arguments later on down the road, and here we are!I am holy. Bow to me.

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

Listen - Buz and I have shown true prophecy - and it is a strawman to say all the above. I haven't made this talk - you have. You use words like "post-hoc reasoning" - you make it sound like I am the one sayiong I think it unreasonable blah blah...I think it unreasonable that you think you can judge which is a true prophecy over the Spirit. I think unbelievers do not have the right to say which is true and which is false. Why should you none-believers decide, and then say such things as "no one prophecy is good enough"....LOL, say all you want - but you won't decide if it's true or not, and your judgements won't matter to me, or your rules.Furthermore - I satisfied your requests about Christ in Isaiah - you ignored me, and came up with an excuse - lest you believe and be converted.

Dan, you said; " But I fully expect you to claim it is about a month or so from now. Looking forward to it. "That was said on the 21 September, and now about 20 days before it should have came to pass, mike still claims that bible prophecy is true. But I never said I wouldn't claim this Dan, I wasn't obliged to take what you say over God. Also - I still think I succesfuly shown you and Schraff that infact the prophecies were accurate. If there was no God then I would - as long as you fed and watered me.

Because you and Buz and Lys are using this stuff to try and convince us to be believers.If you want that to work, you have to meet our standards, which are not unreasonable ones for the detection of supernatural precognition. You don't get to just tell us that our standards are too strict; if you believe that they are, it is because you're too credulous to take seriously.

That's where the "or so" comes in. See how easy it is to make a valid prophecy when you stay nice and vague? You have yet to show that the prophecies were fulfilled. This thing called "God" is a key player in the prophecies, and you can't even show that it exists. So how can you show that the prophecies are fulfilled?The answer is: you can't. But that won't stop you from saying you have.But here, I've done you a favor... I've worked up a pair of chaos mantras for you, based on the statements "Nothing will convince you" and "Isaiah is fulfilled".no-thag-awla-cavysho-fa-lee-daI figure if you're going to mindlessly repeat something in hopes that it comes true, you might as well do it right.

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

It's incredulous to ignore the prophecies of Isaiah alone.But I am not using these true prophecies to make you believe. I am showing that our God --> Is God. You mis-understand - I couldn't care less about impressing unbelievers into belief. But rather - God is a God of covenant, he shows the other gods false through his prophets, and keeps his word. You would have it that no credibility for our beliefs be had - and this is the purpose of the many not the few. Show me where one atheist has said " yes, that's an impressive prophecy ".....But they haven't -- yet chance alone would grant that even ONE prophecy would be accurate, even if untrue. But please - show me where you have ever accepted even one.So, if anyone gets to decide if the prophecies are true - it would be silly to give an unbeliever the job, as he fights daily against bibleGod - in an effort to judge him, and say that he is immoral etc.. Even you yourself do this - so your intentions are obvious.So, I mean - in this topic alone people attack me because I don't want to play, and say that you are convinced the prophecies are untrue, and nothing would satisfy you. But ofcourse you're convinced. What is so wrong with that?It's too late to claim some kind of neutral interest, when you debate bibleGod with me everyday - and are against him. How silly.

I suggest you quote everything your prediction said, and I'll find a technicality to entangle you in. Stop trying to play the "vague" card because of that one example that was previously in those rules. Isaiah prophecies were not vague - only one man in history fulfilled them. And the authors were different in Isaiah from the NT.Likewise - your prophecy was quite accurate and specific - a "month" - so it passes your rules yet you know you're not a true prophet. So, your rules allow falsehoods to get through, and stop truths. And even if u say "October 5" I might play along and make the prediction true. Yet it passes your rules, and a falsehood has been established as true and valid. Tee hee hee

You already quoted it, Mike. Go to town on it, I encourage it. As long as you're willing to hold all prophecies to the same standard. So you agree that a vague prophecy shouldn't be counted? Because I was under the impression that you rejected every possible standard for analyzing a prophecy. You have yet to show that they were in fact fulfilled. See above. No. It says "a month or so". Look at it. You quoted it, guy. No it doesn't; it's too vague, and way, way too obvious. But it passes yours. So start bowing, already. Mike. Two things.1) How is it a falsehood if you fulfill it? Wouldn't that make it true?2) Were you listening at all in the last two threads in which this was patiently explained to you at length, as if you were a retarded child? Whether a prophecy is true or not is irrelevant to whether or not it is impressive. See Rei's prophecy about the sun coming up tomorrow. True, yet so what?This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 10-05-2004 12:02 PM

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

quote:

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Originally posted by mike the wiz

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I think it unreasonable that you think you can judge which is a true prophecy over the Spirit.

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Hi mike the wiz,This is the type of rhetoric that makes skeptics even more skeptical. If the HOLY SPIRIT (as you describe that entity) is responsible for making, and providing interpretation for, prophecy, then prophecy is true and there is no argument. But, as others have mentioned, that is simply starting with your assumed conclusion and working backwards.A closer investigation reveals that (even on this board alone) those who make a habit of claiming to be "Spirit led" seldem agree on what it is that the Spirit has said. That being the case, your (and other's) pleas of "special understanding" land right up there with John Edward's talking to the dead.Thus, much as you may want to special plead us away from doing so, we are not unjustified in looking for the man behind the curtain. Especially since, historically, a diligent search almost always turns him up.Amlodhi

What you are showing Mike is that it IS self-delusion. And you are getting upset because others choose not to delude themselves.If you object to the criteria then you had better show that there are real problems with the criteria. Not complain that they don't give the result you want.

This an is untrue assertion, based ONLY on this forum and ONLY on your thoughts, in that - you ignore that which we agree on. Listen - I don't always voice what I agree with - there's no point.If only my very own experiences backed your assertion up. In the church without walls, we seldom find that the spirit is led us astray, but that the spirit is true. Oftentimes we agree, and are one in agreeing over many prophecies(especially in Isaiah). Now read what that bible quote says - it says that no scripture is a matter of one's intepretation, and so if we all agree (as we do often times at the church without walls, despite your blanket assertion) then we know it's the Spirit. This has happened to me many times - and many times I hold my peace.But ofcourse - mindsets are involved - and even believers can look to their own understanding/interpretation. For example - some are YEc, some are evo. Some have their ears open to the Spirit - some prefer their own interpretation.

I honestly wonder why people think I am upset. I truly am not. Oh but I even met the criteria - and more. And still no acceptance. So, as I have previously stated - your incredulity is not my problem.As for the result I want. How arrogant - why would you think any rules you give leave me desiring to satisfy them? Have you mistakenly presumed that I care about what unbelievers babble is concerning prophecy?Like I said - you people will not decide which prophecy is true or not - so get over the fact that prophecy is true.

sho-fa-lee-da. sho-fa-lee-da. sho-fa-lee-da. sho-fa-lee-da.

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"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars."
-George Meyer, Simpsons writer

MikeYou said: yet so far you have not presented one clear example. If you believe there is one in Isaiah, then please reference it.I think that the problem is how you word things. If you said "I believe this prophecy is true", then I doubt that anyone would do more than comment "I agree" or "I do not agree". However, you keep using terms such as fact and true with no qualifiers. And therein lies the problem. You cannot show or at least have not shown, a single prophecy that reasonable, logical examination supports.If you wish to believe in Biblical Prophecy, fine. Go for it. But if you wish to argue the actual validity of prophecy, then you must be prepared to support them with something more than assertions.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion