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Author Topic:   Claims of God Being Omnipotent in the Bible
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 331 of 368 (738856)
10-16-2014 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by MFFJM2
10-12-2014 10:13 AM


Unable to meet God due to detached observer status
Questioning and using critical thinking i.e. reason has nothing to do with having a low intellect, as you call it. It is part of the method we use to determine truth from falsehood.
Would anyone ever be able to become a believer (getting saved, meeting God, etc) if they disciplined themselves to stick to critical thinking or would they forever remain uncommitted...only exploring new evidence as it became available? Just a question...

...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by MFFJM2, posted 10-12-2014 10:13 AM MFFJM2 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Theodoric, posted 10-16-2014 5:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 333 by ringo, posted 10-17-2014 12:39 PM Phat has responded
 Message 335 by NoNukes, posted 10-17-2014 3:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5702
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 332 of 368 (738860)
10-16-2014 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Phat
10-16-2014 4:46 PM


Re: Unable to meet God due to detached observer status
I guess those that "discipline" themselves to think critically realize that there is probably no supernatural. Cuz, if there were we would have some evidence. If evidence seems to appear we will reevaluate.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Phat, posted 10-16-2014 4:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 333 of 368 (738901)
10-17-2014 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Phat
10-16-2014 4:46 PM


Re: Unable to meet God due to detached observer status
Phat writes:

Would anyone ever be able to become a believer (getting saved, meeting God, etc) if they disciplined themselves to stick to critical thinking or would they forever remain uncommitted...only exploring new evidence as it became available?


Faith is the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Things that are seen still trump things that are not seen.

You can't really be a sincere believer if you don't look.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Phat, posted 10-16-2014 4:46 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by Phat, posted 10-17-2014 3:49 PM ringo has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9332
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 334 of 368 (738903)
10-17-2014 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by MFFJM2
10-13-2014 11:15 AM


You don't have an intelligible point. The founding fathers wrote thousands of letters in their own hand. They were observed by thousands of eyewitnesses, who then wrote about their observations. Contemporaneous writers and historians mention and in some cases quote them

I'm pretty sure that djufo's point is neither that he does not believe in George Washington, nor that he requires direct evidence. His point is that all of those contemporary writers are dead. What we have left at this point is writings and artifacts. Yet we all believe in George Washington and disbelieve that the Sumerians were taught by aliens.

So his claim is somewhat more subtle.

Are you incapable of understanding that sworn statements by living witnesses are the least reliable evidence available

While true, I'm not sure what this argument accomplishes.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by MFFJM2, posted 10-13-2014 11:15 AM MFFJM2 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by MFFJM2, posted 10-21-2014 5:39 AM NoNukes has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9332
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 335 of 368 (738910)
10-17-2014 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Phat
10-16-2014 4:46 PM


Re: Unable to meet God due to detached observer status
if they disciplined themselves to stick to critical thinking or would they forever remain uncommitted

Is there anything in your life for which you consider yourself to act critically? In those cases, does acting critically mean waiting until all possible information is in, and only making a decision when you are certain of success? Would this be sound investment advice?

Critical thinking does not mean remaining forever uncommitted. It might at some point mean rethinking a commitment and possibly taking a new course of action.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Phat, posted 10-16-2014 4:46 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 336 of 368 (738911)
10-17-2014 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by ringo
10-17-2014 12:39 PM


Re: Unable to meet God due to detached observer status
But is it true that we humans by nature don't want a God? Or is that something we solved by exposing the original sin mythos?(not that im entirely convinced by the evidence)

...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by ringo, posted 10-17-2014 12:39 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by ringo, posted 10-18-2014 12:36 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 337 of 368 (738950)
10-18-2014 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by Phat
10-17-2014 3:49 PM


Re: Unable to meet God due to detached observer status
Phat writes:

But is it true that we humans by nature don't want a God?


Aren't you the one who keeps saying we're resistant to the will of God? I think the story of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is an explanation of why we are that way. Where else in the Bible is that not acknowledged as fact?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by Phat, posted 10-17-2014 3:49 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by Phat, posted 10-19-2014 1:47 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 338 of 368 (738988)
10-19-2014 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 337 by ringo
10-18-2014 12:36 PM


Re: Unable to meet God due to detached observer status
It seems to me that you believe that IF GOD exists, humans are meant to grow up into a life where we have no need of Him and whereby we can use our own intelligence to solve our problems.

I disagree with this scenario. Even adults whose parents are still living go to them for advice, encouragement and feedback. At worst, I believe that God desires that we talk with Him often and that we ask Him to forgive our sins and give us wisdom, patience, and whatever else we lack.

As our prime example, Jesus spoke often with His Father and even gave up fellowship and mealtimes in order to do so.


...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by ringo, posted 10-18-2014 12:36 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by ringo, posted 10-19-2014 2:57 PM Phat has responded

  
MikeManea
Junior Member (Idle past 800 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 10-19-2014


Message 339 of 368 (738997)
10-19-2014 6:18 AM


How to Debate Atheists
Hi, my name is Mike and I am currently working on a book called, 'How to Debate Atheists.' I have completed the first three chapters and would appreciate any feedback.
http://mikemanea.com/unapologetics/how-to-debate-atheists/
Replies to this message:
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 Message 342 by RAZD, posted 10-19-2014 10:13 AM MikeManea has not yet responded
 Message 343 by Phat, posted 10-19-2014 10:49 AM MikeManea has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4409
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 340 of 368 (738998)
10-19-2014 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 339 by MikeManea
10-19-2014 6:18 AM


Re: How to Debate Atheists
You need to start a new thread for this and you may get some takers, tho' not many of us can be bothered visiting other sites before debating.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by MikeManea, posted 10-19-2014 6:18 AM MikeManea has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28437
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 341 of 368 (738999)
10-19-2014 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 339 by MikeManea
10-19-2014 6:18 AM


Re: How to Debate Atheists
Welcome home. Pull up a stump and set a spell.

You really do need to spin this off into a new topic but there are some major problems with your approach right from the beginning. First, why debate the existence of a god when there can never be any real proof, at least as long as a person is living.

Second, and perhaps a bigger issue is that there is no "Christian GodTM". Speaking as a Christian. the God that Calvinists try to market is vile, evil, unworthy of worship. The God marketed by the Christian Cult of Ignorance such as seen in the Chick Tracts is just pitiful and laughable.

And even if there were a "Christian GodTM", GOD, if GOD exists is hardly likely to be anything like any of the various gods mankind has created over the centuries.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by MikeManea, posted 10-19-2014 6:18 AM MikeManea has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18241
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 342 of 368 (739002)
10-19-2014 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 339 by MikeManea
10-19-2014 6:18 AM


Re: How to Debate Atheists - with the wrong foot first?
First off I think you are trolling\spamming for your blog rather than expressing any real interest in debate.

Second you don't start a rational discussion with insulting overtones and innuendo.

Third you should debate with atheists the same way you should debate with anyone else -- with respect, honesty, integrity, and offer rational arguments supported by evidence rather than just opinion.

So if you do come back, feel free to start a new thread so we can discuss your problems.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by MikeManea, posted 10-19-2014 6:18 AM MikeManea has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by NoNukes, posted 10-19-2014 12:53 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 346 by NoNukes, posted 10-19-2014 12:54 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
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Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 343 of 368 (739003)
10-19-2014 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 339 by MikeManea
10-19-2014 6:18 AM


Re: How to Debate Atheists
Hi, my name is Mike and I am currently working on a book called, 'How to Debate Atheists.' I have completed the first three chapters and would appreciate any feedback.
Start a new topic in the PNT Forum and I will promote it. Your book seems interesting and, while spamming is not allowed here at EvC the topic seems like a good discussion and trust me, you will get feedback here.

If you participate in this debate/discussion you will gather plenty of fodder to finish your book.


...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by MikeManea, posted 10-19-2014 6:18 AM MikeManea has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 344 of 368 (739004)
10-19-2014 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
01-06-2005 3:51 PM


Back To Debate With Theists
jar writes:

I have read the Bible from beginning to end and it is filled with contradiction, from Genesis straight through to Revelations.

The Map is not the Territory.

The only people who can draw a good map are those who have explored the territory. Several questions.

1) You claim that there is no Christian GodTM and yet you call yourself a Christian. While I agree that GOD is beyond human comprehension and explanation, I would argue that the entire concept of a Christian GodTM comes directly from examining the relationship that Jesus had with His Father.
2) Is it reasonable to assume that GOD is whom Jesus called His Father?
Is it reasonable to assume that there can be an agreement or consensus of a Christian GodTM through the study of whom Jesus believed GOD to be?


...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 01-06-2005 3:51 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 347 by jar, posted 10-19-2014 1:09 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9332
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 345 of 368 (739005)
10-19-2014 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by RAZD
10-19-2014 10:13 AM


Re: How to Debate Atheists - with the wrong foot first?
duplicate

Edited by NoNukes, : My posting ability spews chunks


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by RAZD, posted 10-19-2014 10:13 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
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