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Author | Topic: the newly discovered pool of Siloam | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Some things are not clear, like some Cannanite cities that are recorded in the bible that have not been found, or the Hebrews in Egypt. But as more is actually found, the more those finds are found to be in line with what his written in the bible. Tal, you must also include the negative evidence. For example you mention that some "Cannanite cities that are recorded in the bible that have not been found" when in fact, what has been found is that at the time the conquest of Canaan was supposedly happening, no one living in the area was aware of any invading army or nation called Israel, and that many of the towns mentioned were but small villages at best during the period, some not even occupied. It's fine when things do come to light about the area, the periods and the peoples, but an honest appraisal looks at all of the evidence. For example, there is no evidence that the Hittites mentioned in the Bible are the Hittites that have been discovered. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1366 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Check out the list of Isreali Kings that have been identified by neighboring counties. It is interesting, but I haven't read any further on it. Search | United Church of God sure.
quote: your link doesn't provide the actual sources, i noticed. ah well, since i happen to know this little tidbit anyways, i'll share. jehu and omri are identified on the very same stone. here's the problem though. jehu is identified as OMRI'S SON. open up your copy of the book of kings, and tell me who jehu's father is? in fact, lest the assyrians be confused, who was king of israel before jehu? here's the stone, btw:
that's jehu in the center, on his knees, kissing the feet of shalmanessar iii after losing a battle to him. still got the copy of kings open? tell me the chapter and verse where that occurs. so does the stone really back the identities of the biblical jehu and omri? why is the same piece of rock heralded for proving the existance of people in the bible, but ignored when it disproves the events therein? sounds like one mighty double standard to me: it's not even separate pieces of evidence.
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 4016 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
These creo sites seem to feed off each other---like some sort of a fungus.Don`t they EVER do a little research?
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Tal Member (Idle past 5699 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
Got a link to your source?
'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a simple toy like that (solar system model) and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into the solar System - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you - and you dare say to me that no one made that. I don't believe it'. -Sir Isaac Newton
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Tal Member (Idle past 5699 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
Got anything constructive to add there highspeed?
I have some evidence of King Omri from a Moabite slab.
source <----See source.
For example, the Old Testament speaks of a Northern Israel king named Omri (1 Kings 16:16-30; 2 Kings 8:26; 2 Chron. 22:2; Micah 6:16). King Omri was the father of the wicked king Ahab. Ahab’s wife was Jezebel. Omri is only mentioned in about 16 verses in the Old Testament. However, he was such a powerful king that in monuments that mention him there have been found inscriptions where at that time Northern Israel was called The House of Omri. Because few verses speak of Omri his importance would have not been known unless supplemented outside of the Bible by archaeology. When the Moabite Stone was found (Fig. 4), it provided the answer to a question that had gone unanswered for centuries. The Bible states that David conquered Moab, that Solomon held Moab, and that Moab broke free at the outset of the divided kingdom. But in the next Biblical reference to Moab (2 Kings 3:4), King Ahab is receiving tribute from King Mesha of Moab. 2KI 3:4 Now Mesha king of Moab was a sheep breeder, and used to pay the king of Israel 100,000 lambs and the wool of 100,000 rams. 2 Kings 3:4 (NASB) Nowhere does the Bible state how or when Moab was reclaimed by Israel. The Moabite Stone provides that information, telling of King Omri’s conquest from the Moabite perspective. The Bible does not speak of this accomplishment, but archaeology reveals that King Omri was a more important figure than would have otherwise been known. (1, pg 306 - 310)
This message has been edited by Tal, 08-17-2005 08:54 AM 'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a simple toy like that (solar system model) and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into the solar System - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you - and you dare say to me that no one made that. I don't believe it'. -Sir Isaac Newton
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Here is what is written on the Moabite Stone.
I am Mesha, son of Kemoshmelek, the king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father was king over Moab for thirty years, and I became king after my father. And I made this high place for Kemosh in Qarhar . . . because of the deliverance of Mesha, and because he has saved me from all the kings and because he caused me to see [my desire] upon all who hated me. Omri, king of Israel -- he oppressed Moab many days, because Chemosh was angry with his land. And his son succeeded him, and he also said I will oppress Moab. In my day he spoke according to this word, but I saw my desire upon him and upon his house, and Israel utterly perished forever. Now Omri had possessed all the land of Medeba and dwelt in it his days and half the days of his son, forty years, but Chemosh restored it in my day. And I built Baal-meon and I made in it the reservoir and I built Kiryathaim. And the men of Gad had dwelt in the land of Ataroth from ofold and the king of Israel had built for himself Ataroth. And I foutht against the city and took it, and I slew all the people of the city, a sight pleasing to Chemosh and to Moab. And I brought back from there the altar-hearth of Duda and I dragged it before Chemosh in Kiryoth. And I caused to dwell in it the men of Sharon and the men of Meharoth (?). And Chemosh said to me: "Go take Nebo against Israel"; and I went by night and fought against it from break of dawn till noon, and I took it and slew all, seven thousand men, boys (?), and women, and girls, for I had devoted it to Ashtar-Chemosh. And I took from there the altar-hearths of Yahweh, and I dragged them before Chemosh. And the king of Israel built Jabaz and dwelt in it while he fought with me and Chemosh drove him out from before me. And I took from Moab two hundred men, all its chiefs, and I led them against Jahaz and took it to add unto Dibon. And I built Qarhar (?), the wall of the forests and the wall of the hill; and I built its gates and I built its towers, and I built the kings house, and I made the sluices (?) for the reservoir of water in the midst of the city. And there was no cistern in the midst of the city, in Qarhar (?); and I said to all the people: "Make you each a cistern in his house;" and I cut the cuttings for Qarhar (?) with the help of the prisoners of Israel. I built Aroer and I made the highway by the Arnon. And I built Beth-bamoth, for it had been destroyed. And I built Bezer, for it was in ruins....(Chi) of Dibon wer fifty, for all Dibon was obedient. And I ruled. And I ruled a hundred....in the cities which I had added to the land. And I built [Mede]ba dnd Beth-diblathan. And [as for] Beth-baal-meon, there I placed sheep-raisers....sheep of the land... And [as for] Horonaim there dwelt in it....and.....Chemosh said unto me: "Go down, fight against Horonaim," and I went down and....Chemosh in my day, and from there.....and I....... Your source says:
Tal Source writes: The Moabite Stone provides that information, telling of King Omri’s conquest from the Moabite perspective. In the section above please point out where it says that Omri conqured Moab? The best you can do is find a reference to the town of Medeba which changed hands several times. Your source makes assertions but once again they do not seem to be supported by even their own documentation.
from the stone writes: And his son succeeded him, and he also said I will oppress Moab. In my day he spoke according to this word, but I saw my desire upon him and upon his house, and Israel utterly perished forever. This message has been edited by jar, 08-17-2005 09:45 AM This message has been edited by jar, 08-17-2005 10:31 AM Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a simple toy like that (solar system model) and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into the solar System - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you - and you dare say to me that no one made that. I don't believe it'. -Sir Isaac Newton Tal - Can you provide the source for this quote you use. Newton was quite religious, so it is quite possibly a true reflection of his beliefs, but I cannot find a source. Also, dont you feel it is a little disengenuous to use this. Basically, you are trying to use this to imply that if a great scientist believed in a god then therefore other people should or something to that effect. You are using Newton as your validation. I am sure I can dig up a quote from a famous scientist attempting to debunk germ theory. Just because someone fmous says it doesnt make it so. Newton was stating his beliefs not scientific fact.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1366 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Got a link to your source? it's the black obelisk of shalmanesar. it's pretty famous. just search for jehu and shalmanesar on google. you'll find a ton of sources on BOTH sides.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 634 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
The story is an 'urban legend' evangalistic story. You won't find an origianl source from issac newton on it. As far as I can see, it is just a story that uses Newton to try to convince people the 'illogic' of the athiest position (very badly I might add).
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9146 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
As I figured.
Tal - If you can't provide an original source for this Newton quote, don't you think it would be right to not use it as your signature?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
That "quote" looks like 20th Century English to me. I'd say that it is not even a good fake.,
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Tal Member (Idle past 5699 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
Is that all you are concerned about are my signatures?
"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Way OT. Everybody back in the pool. Please do not reply to this message. I have made numerous posts to this site (this will be 3903). I have made several posts to this thread (this will be the 5th). Only one of these posts is about your .signature. And that raises a point I had noticed some time before and only mentioned because the issue was already being discussed. And I note that you do not choose to dispute the point. I leave others to draw their own conclusions - both about my interests, and our reasons in asking. This message has been edited by AdminJar, 08-18-2005 12:23 PM
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ramoss Member (Idle past 634 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Way OT. Everybody back in the pool. Please do not reply to this message. Signatures tell things about people. When a signanture is such a fraud and a lie, it tells something about you. Do you want a lie to be associated with you all the time? That level of dishonesty or scholarship is not something I would want assocated with me. This message has been edited by AdminJar, 08-18-2005 12:25 PM
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Brian Member (Idle past 4981 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Hi Tal,
I'd have a few questions regarding post number 23, specifically the claim that: I bring up the example of Pontius Pilate, who was said to not have existed because he wasn't mentioned anywhere other than the bible. 1. Do you accept that Pilate is indeed mentioned in external sources? 2. Can you name any of the scholars who "were questioning the actual existence of a Roman Governor with the name Pontius Pilate? 3. Do you accept that your source is incorrect? Thanks for now. Brian
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