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Author Topic:   The Bible of Jesus?
autumnman
Member (Idle past 2845 days)
Posts: 621
From: Colorado
Joined: 02-24-2008


Message 61 of 68 (481815)
09-12-2008 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ramoss
09-12-2008 3:36 PM


Re: Jesus Quotes the Septuagint
ramoss states (and I think it deserves repeating):

I would say that all that the use of Luke quote means is not that Jesus quoted the Septuagint or not, but that the author of Luke did.

I agree!

Regards,
AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ramoss, posted 09-12-2008 3:36 PM ramoss has not yet responded

    
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 62 of 68 (481833)
09-12-2008 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by autumnman
09-12-2008 3:30 PM


Jesus Quotes the Septuagint
autumnman writes:

the Septuagint is a phonetic, Alexandrian Greek translation of the Kethib {non-vocalized} Hebrew Scriptures. And just because the Kethib {non-vocalized} Hebrew Scriptures from which the phonetic, Alexandrian Greek translation was made no longer exist does not mean that the phonetic, Alexandrian Greek translation was rendered in an accurate manner.

The only thing “non-vocalized” about the Hebrew text was the Tetragrammaton and that became the case some long time after it was first written.

The difference between Qere and Ketiv is simply this: Ketiv (or Kethib) is the traditional, ancient, way of writing Hebrew – without vowel markings. This is how the ancient texts have come down and the way they are transcribed for public reading of the Torah.

The Qere: Hebrew written with vowel markings, is a Masoretic interpretive tool dating from the ninth and tenth centuries.

… the LXX version appears to be a toned-down version of Isaiah 61:1 & 2. …
Had the LXX translation of Isaiah 61:1 intended to be more accurate the translation … could be seen by Hellenic overlords as words that could insight upheaval and revolt among the Jews.

As if there were no other inflammatory passages in the Bible?

Therefore, the translators of the LXX were instructed to replace such inflammatory language …

As if the men who wrote Hebrew scriptures had no Assyrian, Babylonian, or Persian “overlords” to fear?

That is my view of why the LXX version of the Hebrew Scriptures is so dramatically different than the Hebrew MT version.

Is this why you have a low opinion of the Septuagint? Because you think God couldn’t get his message past “Hellenic” censors?

And it is my opinion that if Jesus of Nazareth were going to make a really solid point, he would have read the Hebrew version of Isaiah 61:1 & 2 and not the Septuagint version.

And maybe he preferred the Septuagint. :)


Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by autumnman, posted 09-12-2008 3:30 PM autumnman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by autumnman, posted 09-28-2008 2:08 PM doctrbill has responded

  
gluadys
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 57
From: Canada
Joined: 08-22-2008


Message 63 of 68 (482134)
09-14-2008 11:45 PM


The Aramaic Church
I came across this interesting viewpoint today. The suggestion is that all the gospels were first written in Aramaic.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=106553

The link is for information only. I haven't the relevant background to debate it, but I thought it an appropriate footnote to this thread.


    
autumnman
Member (Idle past 2845 days)
Posts: 621
From: Colorado
Joined: 02-24-2008


Message 64 of 68 (484425)
09-28-2008 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by doctrbill
09-12-2008 9:47 PM


Re: Jesus Quotes the Septuagint
doctrbill

In his book The Alphabet Effect on page 38, Robert K. Logan states, “Reading a script” [with] ‘no provisions for vowels or vocalization’ “correctly was a matter of good guesswork guided by context.”

Furthermore,

All of the letters of the Hebrew writing system are “consonants”, according to Ben-Yehuda’s Hebrew-English Dictionary, pg. iii.

In The Jewish Publication Society’s Torah Commentary-Genesis, on page xvii, Professor Sarna states, “For nearly two millennia and a half...Jewish intellectual and spiritual history may be said to be essentially the record of the variegated attempts to unfold the sense, meanings, purposes, intents and applications of the biblical texts.”

Why has there been two thousand five hundred years of attempts to unfold the sense, meanings, purposes, intents and applications of the Kethib {consonantal} biblical texts?. Because to read a Kethib text that has no provisions for vowels or vocalization correctly is a matter of guesswork before a context can even be established.

I apologize for not replying sooner, but I am in the midst of harvest and have very little time to spend on the computer.

Regards,
Autumnman


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by doctrbill, posted 09-12-2008 9:47 PM doctrbill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by doctrbill, posted 10-06-2008 4:57 PM autumnman has not yet responded

    
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 65 of 68 (485262)
10-06-2008 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by autumnman
09-28-2008 2:08 PM


Jesus Quotes the Septuagint
Autumnman,

Thank you for the information. You're not the only one slow to respond.

From your post:

quote:

In The Jewish Publication Society’s Torah Commentary-Genesis, on page xvii, Professor Sarna states, “For nearly two millennia and a half...Jewish intellectual and spiritual history may be said to be essentially the record of the variegated attempts to unfold the sense, meanings, purposes, intents and applications of the biblical texts.”

Jews are not the only ones who are struggling to find meaning and context in the Bible.

I have spent the past three days comparing 22 versions in five languages, including the classics (LXX, Vulgate & Tanach). I wanted to see how much variety of translation is associated with a handfull of ancient words; all of which have been "translated" by our word: "earth." In the course of this little Bible Study, I have observed a change in how translators have dealt with this word subsequent to the Copernican heresy and again after the dawn of the Space Age. This finding fits well with other evidences of Bible tweaking by persons with a vested interest in the business of religion. And, it does not bode well for those who wish to argue anything of "global" import from the Bible. This includes the Creation, the Flood, the Gospel Commission, and the bit about inheriting "the earth." Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you take all that away there's not much left for believers to get head-up about.

So what's new? Nothing really. I merely wish to multiply the weight of evidence in anticipation of a tipping point at which that silly load of bull will slide out of the American conscience and leave us feeling lighter, stronger, and ready to become citizens of the real "Earth."

Edited by doctrbill, : No reason given.


Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by autumnman, posted 09-28-2008 2:08 PM autumnman has not yet responded

  
Creationist
Member (Idle past 3478 days)
Posts: 95
Joined: 10-19-2007


Message 66 of 68 (485856)
10-12-2008 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by doctrbill
08-18-2008 9:55 AM


Septuagint?
Is there really any proof that it really existed?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by doctrbill, posted 08-18-2008 9:55 AM doctrbill has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Stevie, posted 10-17-2008 10:07 AM Creationist has not yet responded

    
Stevie
Member (Idle past 3473 days)
Posts: 32
From: Arlington Heights, IL
Joined: 10-16-2008


Message 67 of 68 (486233)
10-17-2008 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Creationist
10-12-2008 1:59 PM


Re: Septuagint?
Hi, I'm really God, please visit my New Topic about how the universe really works.

love and hugs!

Steven Joseph Christopher
Arlington heights, IL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Creationist, posted 10-12-2008 1:59 PM Creationist has not yet responded

    
!_! 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3456 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 68 of 68 (486577)
10-22-2008 4:10 PM


http://www.rsdnation.com/showthread.php?t=32043

alright; this movie and other partial-to-total lies claims that the word of the creator is ****

**************************************************
example of cannabis in the sealed word of god: chances exceeding 1 in 6.5 x 10E420

http://exodus2006.com/Iciple/measurenot.htm

mathematical patterning in word of god:

www.biblecodedigest.com www.exodus2006.com

www.ad2004.com www.exodus2006.com/3code.htm

************************************************** *
things like one woman to one man instead of the law which is multiple women to one man as allowable, thus to fire it:

www.biblepolygamy.com

here is the burial of jesus christ in the cloth put and raised in:

www.shroudforum.com

www.shroudstory.com

the original gospel (good news) was written from the aramaic; lies include: the bible is bs; the bible didn't happen; the bible is a storybook to be read in a monastery

noah's ark: www.666soon.com

"there were giants in those days and also after" (genesis)

photo of an antedeluvian giant:

www.returnofthenephilim.com/PhotoAntediluvianGiant.html

*************************************************

the original aramaic gospel in english downloadable and mathematic

www.lulu.com/items/volume_62/801000/801962/15/print/801962.pdf

was the new testament really written in greek contains split/semi-split words

www.aramaicpeshitta.com/Was%20the%20New%20Testament%20Really%20Written%20in%20Greek%20-%20Edition%201a.pdf

*************************************************
Illuminati Formula to Create a Totally Undetectable Mind Control Slave

http://educate-yourself.org/mc/IlluminatiFormulaindex.shtml

www.unknownprophet.com has a vision regarding california

retranslations include: "for ever and ever" = "for age and age" "aeon and aeon"; MTY 11:12 breaking forth, and those breaking forth seize hold of it;
LK 14:26 "to hate", "to put aside", "to have aversion against"; pronounce of yhwh as yehowah; 11 rev arc of covenant; 11 daniel ethiopia/ns and libya/ns with anti-messiah; a "day" not only as a 1000 years as definite neither as a 24 hour day as definitel; sheol/hades/hell as a pit/storage and gehenna/fire place as what ppl call and biased spit as "hell"

*************************************************
9daniel in ad2004.com is about the meshikha not the anti-meshikha and the lion of the "end of days" is unecessarily j christ (of judah)

/is not armageddon:
http://ad2004.com/Biblecodes/Hebrewmatrix/endofdays.pdf

*************************************************

lastly: "He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man (adam) in the day when they were created."

GEN 1 in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth, and the earth became laid waste; as opposed to "was formless"

" "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, be fruitful and
multiply, and *replenish the earth... The word used here is (Strong's
ref. 2318 chadash, khaw - dash; a prim. root; to be new, to rebuild,
repair, renew" "

"Fallacies: seraphim as flying sauces/discs
yeremiah's vision as "pre-adamic" as opposed to day of the lord
mryh-yhwh sending negative ets against humanity as opposed to watchers on day of the lord"

" "Behold, HE (antichrist?) shall come up as CLOUDS, and his chariots
shall be as a WHIRLWIND (Joel 2?): his horses swifter than EAGLES
(UFO's?). Woe unto us! for we are spoiled. Make ye mention to the
NATIONS; behold, publish against JERUSALEM that W A T C H E R S COME
FROM A FAR COUNTRY, and give out their voice against the cities of
Judah. " "

he; yhwh eagles; chariots "like a hurricane"

" "The vision which Esias son of Amos saw against Babylon. Lift up a
standard on the mountain of the plain, exalt the voice to them, beckon
with the hand, open the gates, ye ruler. I give command and I bring
them: N E P H I L L I M are coming to fulfil MY WRATH, rejoicing at
the same time and insulting " "

day of the lord; translation of/out of septuagint "nephilim" fallacy

positive seraphim/fiery ones/serpent ones noted in Isaiah 6

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5npGRK6L6Eg ophanin is the wheel not seraphim

************************************************** ***
__________________
RESURRECT-OPEN

RE: Zeitgeist 2: Addendum

"words of Genesis 1:2 'and the earth was (became) formless and void'
The next sentence, 'and the earth was formless and void', is in
error in most English translations. It should read, 'and the earth
became formless and void.' The Hebrew word translated 'was formless'
in English versions of the Bible is 'toh-ho' a verb which means, 'to
lay waste'. "
http://godandscience.org/youngearth/longdays.html

************************************************** **
is not armageddon:
http://ad2004.com/Biblecodes/Hebrewmatrix/endofdays.pdf

9 Daniel: meshikha cut off on 70th 7year
"on the wings of abomination it shall be made desolate"

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/70weeks.htm
http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/chart_seventy.htm
(70 weeks is over)

************************************************** ***

12 Revelation

woman bride mother zion

and I heard an eagle flying in the heaven (8rev)

two wings of a great eagle were given to the woman (12rev)

************************************************** ***

5th seal 11 revelation 12 revelation 13 revelation 144k slain further
witnesses slain

third woe
woe to the earth and sea, for the devil, who has great fury has
descended to them, as he knows that he has little time (12rev)

"a great fiery dragon"
www.planetxforecast.com
www.librarising.com/cosmology/planetx-kolbrin.pdf

great fiery dragon is the destroyer is false

a bible is a set of volumes

'Mayan Elder, Hunbatz Men, also revealed that the Mayans have known about
Tzoltze ek' (Nibiru) for many years. They say 'The planet has a period of 6,500
years, not 3,600, and visits us 4 times every 26,000 year precessional cycle'
(the Great Calendar of the Pleiades that ends on 21st December 2012).

************************************************** ****

"The Biblical phenomenon:
"Here is the mind which has wisdom.
The seven heads are seven mountains
on which the woman (the harlot Babylon) sits."
Rev. 17:9 KJV, NKV

Is this clue referring to the 'seven hills of Rome'? I don't think so.
If we take this literally and look for mountains, we can actually find
one geographic area in the world where exactly seven mountain ranges converge -
in a remote spot in northeastern Pennsylvania, USA!

A map drawn in 1872 gives this area a name, one which may be surprisingly
prophetic. The name? The World's End."

************************************************** ***

www.aramaicnt.com
www.aramaicnt.com/Erratta.doc
www.lulu.com/items/volume_62/755000/755577/7/print/755577.pdf

canonical: torah joshua judges samuel
kings isaiah jeremiah ezekiel hosea joel
amos obadiah micah nahum habakuk
haggai zechariah malachi psalms proverbs
job song of solomon ruth lamentations
ecclesiastes ester daniel ezra nehemiah
chronicles mty mark luke john acts of the
apostles james peter john jude paulus
revelation

"you shall be with me in paradise" abraham's bosom,
sheol, heart of the earth/world; as opposed to heaven

25 december of egyptian horus; birth of christ in sept oct
raised on a saturday; as opposed to easter-ishtar of babelon

YHWH:
http://becomingone.org/gp/gp1b.htm
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html
http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?user=PronouncingTheName&tab=weblogs&uid=329809607

Edited by AdminModulous, : user posted this same post in multiple places at the same time. Text hidden, user suspended.


  
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