Proof and analysis of Biblical end time accuracey [Synnegi]

DISCLAIMER: BEING THIS IS AN OLD THREAD, I NO LONGER HOLD SOME OR EITHER ALL OF THESE BELIEFS - UMLIAK explanation's title (its name) for reference: Synnegi
if you wish to refer to this post and entire explanation written here, use the term, "synnegi" which means, "cloud ground"About Earth and Heaven, and its destruction and fate, here are some explanations that will clarify what the Bible is prophesying:We watch the seasons and weather to tell us about the future, where as in autumn the earth below is dried out and dies (making things more flammable) and the sky is clothed in white clouds. The Bible tells us in three different instances about earth being round and a sphere. In one of these passages it tells us about the Lord sitting "enthroned above the circle of the earth". So the throne is heaven, the earth is the circle below, and so when Jesus is seated on the great white throne, or all the water has literally cycled into heaven where death--literally caused by sin--fuels earth's destruction (think about it, the ecosystem would collapse if all plant life died; and so mankind sinning, which causes death (I won't explain this now) would do likewise, destroying earth, heating it up like another layer in the earth's core, drying it out, and evaporating all the water into heaven as the heat increases continually) we now see that the lake of fire is earth now. So as Earth and Heaven are destroyed, heaven becomes the new earth, and there above heaven now is a new heaven. This is how you get a new heaven and a new earth. So earth becomes solid white cloud, as ice (the water in the clouds) expand to take over the greater surface area of the earth's spherical body, the sky; and as water it cannot contend with the fire below, as earth is now physically transformed into Jesus' great white throne; or, one huge cloud--as the Bible emphasizes the skies and clouds. So where death perpetuates deserts and sin causes death, then sin clearly destroys earth, whereas the sky above is filled with water to become one great cloud, as the earth below (us now; dust) is dried out like autumn with no rain or snow. So then heaven becomes the new earth's surface, whereas the earth now is darkened by all the water evaporated to the sky, and is clouded and burned--it is very dry, like dead leaves in autumn, and like the earth's core, except without any water, sinners will burn here, while the saved will inhabit the sky above, now one solid white foundation (Jesus' white throne). Earth would be a beautiful ball of white. Woe to you who burn here. Dry leaves burn quickly; and so does earth with no water. It becomes a lake of fire to the heaven above.About the body:
You were once a fetus, without open eyes to see your flesh, or knowledge of your growing body and life to come. In darkness you sat, believing you were one with your mom. Your mom fed you and gave you a body. Until you were born and became a being in light, with eyes to see your flesh, separating from your mom (shedding your mother's flesh). Likewise we are still these growing fetuses, fading into death, separating or shedding the earth's flesh. You exit the earth's womb, and open your spiritual eyes to see your spiritual body. Earth is like a mom; we sit in its body (the dust), and eat from it to grow and mature. Until we die and exit its womb (flesh body; made from and grown from earth) in which we move about now. We are fetuses with closed eyes. Not able to see ourselves. When we die, we are born, and we see the spirit body that is growing now.Likewise, as our mom's die, so dies the earth. The earth is born again in heaven as well; its surface becomes solid white, and the dust becomes fire. Another settled layer in its core (like dirt sinking in a glass of water, all the water will settle in the sky, as we can watch in this giant snow globe with clouds shifting about). Life and death is a transition. Good cannot contend with evil, so God being in heaven, for Adam to know both good and evil, he must first become or see evil. So evil corrupted the original creation; or, Eden. So then in order to know evil, but to remain with God, you must pass away from evil, for God is good; not evil. So you must die in order to have the knowledge of good and evil, but to also see God. For death creates heaven, and heaven is rebirth (for when a man dies, he is born into heaven--out of this present fetus; and when earth dies, it is reborn as heaven, where the present earth and life pass away into another layer of the core; or, fire, and then heaven about becomes earth's new surface or growing body--earth's mature body). So man died because of the knowledge of good and evil; God promised that. The creator promised death. So death is part of the creation. Death creates heaven, and death destroys the present earth. But life is good, and death is evil. So if earth became evil and took on death, what happened to the good and perfect world in which God reigned? Well, he settled or moved on up to heaven, where death transforms into--unless you are evil, and love evil more than God, and so your reward is the hellish earth now that, by your evil and sin (which causes death) leads this earth into fire.So whereas on the larger level God's will never fades; it is only made better, as heaven; on our level, sin leads to hell. So by sinning and not repenting you create hell. If you leave hell as an inheritance to the future generations, which could in fact include you should you reincarnate, then your soul's inheritance is this hell. For it is not God's will, but his punishment. Sin brings death, and so judgement. You must uphold perfection, for that is God's will. And to pass through this present creation and womb of death, to be born into heaven above (or, the clouds), you will know both good and evil, but without this present body and being up in heaven where evil is not present, you can be nearer to God for evil is not hiding you anymore. God is good, not evil.So you see life is a cycle of life and death; it's a perfect creation. Death creates heaven, but destroys earth, and so also creates hell on earth. So men's sin provokes anger, for it punishes the earth now, and creates hell for those who live (or, who are dying) here.This message has been edited by umliak, 12-18-2004 02:07 PM{Changed title per originators request. Also added some blank lines between paragraphs. - Adminnemooseus}This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 12-21-2004 08:15 PMThis message has been edited by umliak, 12-30-2004 14:49 AMThis message has been edited by umliak, 06-18-2005 01:11 PM

This topic started out with a very long, complex message 1. It went through a fair amount of review and editing to get it where it now is.I still don't really know what to make of it, but the originator did seem to put a lot of effort into getting it into a releasable form, and I think s/he should be rewarded for such.Message 1 of the "Proposed New Topic" has been spun off to become this new topic.Adminnemooseus

I really don't know what to make of it either - the second sentence stopped me for a minute, though. "Round and a sphere" in three places? Really? We've been over this ground here before, and "sphere" just ain't there in the text. That's not a real good start for a "Bible accuracy" thread.This message has been edited by Coragyps, 12-21-2004 09:15 PM

Hi,There's a whole lot of stuff in there that you take for granted and you do not attempt to justify your conclusions to others.For example, this particular claim is confusing:So you see life is a cycle of life and death; it's a perfect creation. This is difficult to accept, given that death was not originally part of creation, and only entered because of mankind's sin. Thus, you are claiming that God created sin as part of His perfect creation, this does not make sense at all.Brian.

Wow! A great effort and somewhat poetic, umliak! Is this your interpretation of the meaning of life in a nutshell? I am curious. Are you influenced by some things that you have read, or are you giving us your written opinion of the meanings contained in your thread?Do you see us all becoming a great ashes to ashes, dust to dust sort of finale whereafter the curtain lifts and God the director comes on stage to renew us?Often we (here at EvC) quibble over the meaning and purpose of our future. Some of us believe that humanity is imperfect and is predestined to end in its current state. God will intervene and correct our bullish free wills. Meaning is found in our relationship to God.Others of us, Sidelined and Rrhain come to mind, offer that we are mere bit actors in a much larger universal drama. We are part of a cosmic dance of creativity which is an ongoing and vibrant march towards greater diversity and form. To them, the meaning is not to be focused on us as dancers, but the meaning and homage is to be paid to the dance itself!Whaddaya think, umliak? Any further thoughts?

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I really don't know what to make of it either - the second sentence stopped me for a minute, though. "Round and a sphere" in three places? Really? We've been over this ground here before, and "sphere" just ain't there in the text. That's not a real good start for a "Bible accuracy" thread.

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Not "round and a sphere" repeated in three places, however, implied. Such as (I don't have a Bible on my lap right now, so I'll take your interest for granted and assume you have resources to find these passages and confirm them for yourself):"the earth takes shape like clay under a seal"
"the wind blows south and immediately heads back north; round and round it goes"
"he sits enthroned above the cirlce of the earth"Clay under a seal is clearly describing the earth as circuluar, whereas I personally think the sun may be, or part of, the seal. In Ecclesiastes we get the wind going round and round passage, which clearly (this is in chapter 1 of Ecclesiastes) is describing the earth as round. In fact Ecclesiastes itself is a very nice book, if you use it and try to understand it, praying for understanding and truth, Ecclesiastes can offer insight. The book itself talks about things being a "chasing after the wind", which means, if you chase the wind south, the earth only redirects itself back up north, because it's round.
Also, "sitting enthroned above the circle of the earth" tells us not only is earth circular, but the throne is similar to a photograph in space where you see earth as a circle. I believe the skies are thrones. In fact in Revelation it talks of Jesus being seated on a "Great white throne", or, heaven--above the circle of the earth. Whereas this supports my dry earth, enflamed as another part of the core, and the sky becomes one huge white ball, or cloud, as all the water settles there. Jesus sits up there, on the great white throne, and earth becomes hell. In fact in this part of Revelation, everything is laid out--which supports my message, as understanding given by God. It says that the old heaven and earth passed away and the sea exists no more (because the sea is evaporated into the sky to add to Jesus' throne, or, the heavens). And our heaven now becomes the new earth, or, earth's next surface, and our earth now is literally a dry lake, which I can see being set ablaze, as it is so painfully and completely dry.The Bible refers in many, many places of clouds. I believe much of the Bible is literal.

Hi, Eh, of course much of it is literal, it is trying to prove which parts are literal that is the difficult bit.For example, do you believe that Lamech lived for 777 years, 653 years, or 753 years?Or is Lamech's age one of those things we should not take literally?Brian.

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Hi,
There's a whole lot of stuff in there that you take for granted and you do not attempt to justify your conclusions to others.

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For example, this particular claim is confusing:

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So you see life is a cycle of life and death; it's a perfect creation.

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This is difficult to accept, given that death was not originally part of creation, and only entered because of mankind's sin. Thus, you are claiming that God created sin as part of His perfect creation, this does not make sense at all.

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Well God is perfect, isn't he? Sin is a choice, and being that Adam was created as a part of God's perfect creation--whereas God is perfect, his will is perfect, and if he were not, he would be inconsistent. So as death is really rebirth, and God created death, death is part of the creation. In fact I think it was Jesus who said that the punishment for sin is death. So death is the punishment, and punishments are meant to teach you a lesson. So whereas God is stable and perfect, for he is not like man needing to change his mind, if his Eden and good and perfect world tastes sin, or evil, whereas God is the God of good, not evil, God tells us that good cannot contend with evil. So if our present earth is evil, and this earth is dying, then so are we evil, and dying. And if we die and death is a literal rebirth (we are fetuses growing in mother earth's womb), then earth's death is a rebirth. Earth is reborn as a perfect, clean, and eternal body (heaven; or, as I have explained, earth becomes a huge white cloud body, and the ground that we are at now becomes hell, for it has died).I'm not sure what all I have written in this thread, so I'll just say it: God is perfect, and through him all things were made. So to suggest that anything he does is not perfect or a part of creation would be calling him a liar; or, basically, you would be sinning, as this belief is a lie. So whereas God promised Adam death for his actions (and none of us really know much about the deepest truths to Eden, for if we did we would not be clouded with so much sin and lies), let not your emotions discourage you. God is the creator, and if death is a new part of God's creation, that it is certainly a part of the creation, meaning, death creates heaven. Since the punishment for sin is death, only when you die will you be good again, for Eden and the original creation was turned rotten, and so through death you pass from sin. See, sin is not God's will, instead it is punished, or destroyed. The earth was made evil, and still is, and so when you die, you get to see perfection, or paradise again, since you are still a part of earth. You (the growing spirit fetus to which you inhabit in eternal life, much like the body you inhabit now which was once a fetus in your mother) carry like a weight around with your spirit. But like water rises in this giant snow globe, so does good, and spirit. Good is not some theory, or idea, it is real. Physical possessions rot, and transform only to settle in the dirt, but the spirit of God and of truth endures forever.The Bible offers much insight, and Jesus will lead you to streams of living water. I wonder if this means our bodies will be made of the clouds, out of water. Much like we eat dirt and are made out of dirt, our present ground. Since this earth passes away however, and the water and clouds make up the new earth, or, our present heaven, then I wonder if our bodies will be made out of the clouds. Would be interesting, however, it is hard to know, since our present world is so plagued with ignorance and sarcasm. People more willing to be politically correct than to save their own soul, and find the truth.I had a dream last night watching this go into effect; dryness and deserts forming and water filling the sky. However, what I noticed at the end of this was the earth filling with water. I don't know what this means, if anything. But I can only imagine it has to do with global warming. Whereas when the snow melts you get spring, and summer, and then autumn--and of course winter again. So I believe that when the snow melts on the ice caps, earth's demise will come closer, as with spring comes autumn soon after, so if earth loses its snowcaps (think on a much older, and larger earthly scale), its winter season, or body, will have melted and passed away. The only thing left is autumn, and I believe this clearly only means that earth will just overheat and die away and become a dry autumn, whereas in autumn the sky fills with water and is clothed in white clouds. So then this autumn will do for earth what it is doing now in its timely birthpains and labor; it will give birth to the heavens--or, the new earth, since this present earth (or, the altitude or ground we are at now) will simply be dead. It will burn up and dry like the dry skin men hide with lotion in the fall and winter seasons.See, I believe earth itself is like a body. All its seasons and everything go about on a giant course. Everything is a sign of this, and that, and what is to come, or what once was. So if earth's winter (which gave it its snowcaps) are so important today, and when they melt like springtime, somewhere in some way God has predestined earth to pass away as it is in its present form. Heaven is not some dream-like state of mind and imagined realm far off in reality. We watch it being made. And God tells us how to get there, and he tells us how it all works, and what to do. But like he also told us and so we can see, much sin and evil lie to us and fill us with misguidance and whatifs.Earth is bigger than our bodies, and so one must recognize its health and being. If we grow and are born, and then live and grow are died (or, reborn from mother earth's body and womb which God feeds us), then what about earth? If earth grew and was born, and earth dies, what it is reborn as? Well, heaven. We see its clouds, we see its surface from space lifted high above the dirt. Do not separate yourself from God by imagining all the things you want. You are evil in an evil and sinful world. Serve God who gave you this world, and heaven, for when you die and are reborn into eternal life, then will what you desire be pure, and everlasting--not rotting.

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Eh, of course much of it is literal, it is trying to prove which parts are literal that is the difficult bit.

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For example, do you believe that Lamech lived for 777 years, 653 years, or 753 years?

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Or is Lamech's age one of those things we should not take literally?

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Brian.

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Forgive my vagueness. I meant much of the Bible is literal to earth now; or, the dying aspect which we are in now. Whereas a lot of it is literal to spirit and heaven...and many people go around thinking of things as being of invisible heavenly events correlating to earth which we will not see on earth, or in this planet but on some other plain (while this is true, I believe much of the Bible is physically involved AS WELL as being heavenly and spiritually). Such as the trumpets being sounded. I think they may be literal descriptions by a prophet who was seeing these visions. For instance, a mushroom cloud: it makes a loud sound, and is gigantic. It also looks similar to a trumpet; which a prophet, I propose, could have used to describe it. Something like a mushroom cloud (or huge bomb) exploding can have dramatic influences across the entire earth's body and health, changing the environment everywhere and for everything. Such a trumpet could then trigger heavenly plagues on earth.If one were to bomb the north pole, for instance, he could support in creating massive, massive dramatic problems everywhere. Even if one were to bomb the ocean with an atomic bomb, you could create tidal waves and do much damage. So why not suggest such bombs and events could trigger events the Bible tells us of? If you bomb and island, I believe this disrupts earthly health, in some way, and so can cause massive problems everywhere. The earth is one body. War here can affect social climates across the globe. So many things in the Bible are probably more literal than men take them to be.

Umliak,Maybe you can help me in the "The relevence of Biblical claims to science" forum in "Misc Topics"

Again, we're hearing the same old stuff. Maybe you can help me on two little points.First, give me one good reason I should accept the Bible over the Prose and Poetic Eddas or the Koran or any of the countless oral traditions about gods and creation and so forth.Second, show why a mythic mindset is valid in the first place. Why do we need gods?

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Again, we're hearing the same old stuff. Maybe you can help me on two little points.
First, give me one good reason I should accept the Bible over the Prose and Poetic Eddas or the Koran or any of the countless oral traditions about gods and creation and so forth.

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Second, show why a mythic mindset is valid in the first place. Why do we need gods?

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Well, first of all the Bible has been proven to be accurate, and this is my point in giving you reasonable ways of seeing this is understanding it using some insight I am giving you to things I've observed and learned through the Bible and from God (some information reguarding the End Times and of God that might help you in your faith, and understanding of the accuracey of the scripture, and meaning). Also, as I've shown, the Bible accurately describes the earth long before it was really known or believed by the world or people--or even proven, as by photographs and modern science (the world being round and circular). The accuracey of earth is a pretty strong pointer to supporting the Bible and its truth. And if you can believe the Bible as true, and it offers you truth and knowledge of God and heaven, and it also tells you the truth will set you free, then this to me in itself is a pretty strong point to choosing the Bible.Also, I have created a thread about an explanation to our inferiority to other lifeforms and spirits, created by God. If you read it, it might help explain why you need help. Also, there is one God, not "gods", so please do not try to entrap me. But for your own conscience, let me ask you: why do you need parents? Surely you could grow and mature without them--surely if you are so great as to not need God and his angels, then you could be born without a mother. No, that is nonsense. First recognize the truth of your nothingness, then ask reasonable questions. Likewise your place in society is dependent on other people as it stands. You learned from them, were milked and fed by them, you were birthed by them. So then, tell me why you as a spirit do not need other spirits, or God, to grow.This message has been edited by umliak, 12-22-2004 03:18 PM

No, I don't think it has. Show me something beyond your word. A lot of other religious texts also got a few hits here and there. Again, why is the bible somehow superior? Watch it. I certainly need no help of the kind you suggest, and it is rude for you to say I do. It isn't so because you say it is. Bring out something real as support, if you can. Because I am a naturally occurring biological organism, just like everyone else and that's how such organisms are created. They were also handy to have around to protect and support me when I couldn't for myself. Then, I became an adult and can function independently. No. Whatever gave you that silly idea. I certainly never said it. You're begging the question of whether or not gods or spirits exist. Show that they do and then you might be able to make this kind of statement.This is exactly what I meant by the same old same old. A bunch of bland assertions about why someone believes in some god or other, all operating from the assumption that it is their particular idea of this supposed deity. It gets tiresome. Some of you may remember that I first came to this forum and took pains to be very polite and respectful. Posts like this have beaten that out of me.

The ancient Greeks had known, and proven, that the Earth was spherical, long before it was written in the Bible. Not only that but they'd quite accurately measured it's diameter. Uh, the fact that the Bible writers were able to write down something that was fairly common knowledge among intelligentia in the ancient world doesn't speak at all to it's accuracy. Moreover, the accuracy of one statement in a work can't be used to substantiate other, unrelated statements. After all, I could write a book that said:1) The sky is blue.
2) 1 + 1 = 2.
3) I can move objects simply with the power of my mind.The fact that 1 and 2 are undeniably true doesn't substantiate 3.

Thanks for that verse: it proves my point even further. Clay under a seal will indeed be circular and disk-shaped, not spherical in the least. The ancient Hebrews pretty obviously held the Earth to be a disk - otherwise we can't have the devil showing Jesus "all the kingdoms of the world" from a mountain, or God "above" and looking down on (presumably) all the grasshopper-like people on the circle of the Earth. How do you sit "above" a sphere, exactly, when that sphere is big enough to have its own noticeable gravity?