Proof and analysis of Biblical end time accuracey [Synnegi]

Opening again at originator's request. I expect all parties to start over and play nice. If this thread degenerates back into insults and accusations it will be closed for a longer period.

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AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

If I violated forum rules, I do apologize to the community at large and will restrain my behavior. I will not apologize to Umliak under any circumstances.

I did search for "tongues". It resulted in a short list (13 I believe I recall) of unsupported first person accounts. Unsupported first person accounts do not constitute support of a position in any forum.Again, I await actual support of your assertion that individuals in religious ecstasy have spoken in languages unknown to them or your withdrawal of the claim.

I speak in tongues.

buzsaw Really? because you could give the validity of your claim a huge boost in believability if you were to have someone record you on videotape while doing so since the only thing I have ever heard from people saying they could do this was incomprehensible drivel.There is a notice about the "speaking in tongues" phenomena at this website. glossolalia - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com Perhaps you would be willing to submit to James Randi and have the claim verified.You could simultaneously slap us back to the stone age in disbelief while at the same time winning the prize of 1 million dollars which you could donate to a good cause as you see fit.Here is the website. JREF - HomeEven though there is no good reason not to{other than avoiding having to back up your assertio0n} I doubt very much that there will be a snowballs chance in hell of this for one silly reason or another. In fact I am willing to bet on it.So how about it buz.Let us find a way to actually put our money where our mouth is eh? Put up or be done with it.

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A centipede was happy quite, until a toad in fun
Said, "Pray, which leg comes after which?'
This raised his doubts to such a pitch
He fell distracted in the ditch
Not knowing how to run.

The title of this thread is "Proof and analysis of Biblical end time accuracy." I'm not sure if you are saying that you have proof that the prophecies of the Biblical end time are accurate or that you have proof that your explanation of Biblical end time prophecies is accurate. Please let me know which it is or if I am mistaken. Keep it simple please. For the rest of this post I am going with the latter choice.Since you didn't specify what scripture fits with which thought, right now I'm focusing on Revelation 21.

quote:

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So as Earth and Heaven are destroyed, heaven becomes the new earth, and there above heaven now is a new heaven. This is how you get a new heaven and a new earth. So earth becomes solid white, as ice expands to take over the sky,...

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Your explanation seems to describe a global transformation as opposed to a regional transformation.I don't see where the author describes the land moving up a level from the planet's surface.What leads you to understand that heaven becomes the new land?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This isn't an understanding of the purpose of tongues. There are two - one for edification of the church - and the tongue for prayer in the Spirit, to build and edify one's faith. So these questions are most inapropriate - as this is not a science experiment;1 Corinthians 14:2 says For one who speaks in an (unknown) tongue speaks not to men but to G-d, for no one understands of catches his meaning, because in the (Holy) Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things1 Corinthians 14: 4

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He who speaks in a (strange) tongue edified and improves himself.This is the gift I have, and what I meant..Do you think you can buy a gift from God? What possibly makes you think that God shall be tempted for one million dollars? You are as they said in the NT - confused, thinking that the Holy Spirit can be bought, or that God can be tempted. But there shall be no sign or proof given to you.If I would prove this then you would have no reason to believe. I said I speak in tongues. In a subject like this - that's all I need to say. As I already know nothing can convince you. Tis the Pecos process. As you can see - if no one understands what I speak - how would a test prove anything?Y r u calling me Buzsaw?

well, Don't you think it would be worth MORE than a million dollars. It is a vindication of the TRUTH of your faith!!!.Unless, of course, you really aren't sure of your faith, then of course, you will skip the test.

1^st. Corintians 14 says nothing of the sort.Paul is very clear there that speaking in tongues is worthless and pointless. He acknowledges that it happens and that folk claim that GOD understands. But he is also very clear that it serves no purpose other than self gratification, that is provides no information or value.It's short so here it is in its entirety, not quote mined.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar, thanks for proving what I said.He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself.And I agree with the other quote also, that except we utter words that be understood...Erm, here's what I said; So basically I agree with everything you quoted.Please Stop accusing me of blowing smoke in every thread Jar - it's an unwarranted accusation, and irrelevant to the topic which I am engaging in a serious manner. You didn't quote that. That's opinion. He says it edifies the one with the tongue. But yes, I agree - an experiment is worthless, because of your second quote.It seems you've taken to arguing with me when you even agree with me. May I ask why this interests you?If tongues is nonsense to you that's fair enough - I don't expect it to mean much to anyone here, nor do I claim I've proved anything.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 12-29-2004 12:40 AM

Mike, I had the impression that speaking in tongues was so amazing (even miraculous) because people spoke in a language that they had never heard and could not ever have learned.Now we seem to have even the Bible saying that it is gibberish. In addition there is no tested, controled cases? Why on earth would you bring up someone speaking gibberish like a mental patient and pretend that prooves anything important?

Ned, I haven't pretended to prove anything. I've only stated that I speak in tongues. The bible doesn't say it is gibberish. The point is that personal tongues, or praying in the Spirit - is for the individual.As for gibbering like a mental patient, that's a fitting and predictable response from how a naturalistic and atheistic person would see this.Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 12-29-2004 15:29 AM

I agree. For the sake of justifying theirselves they deny theirselves. For it is written, "He who knows the All and does not know himself has missed everything."Men attain to know knowledge and theirselves, but when it comes to discussion they will for the sake of denial, be sarcastic and skeptics. One would say tongues is gibberish, and dreams (dreams with meaning to the dreamer) are simply just dreams, and mean nothing...though one can have very real feelings in a dream; both emotional and physical, such as pain and burning. I once walked in lava and felt a burn, in a dream. That hardly seems worthless. I was also told once that, "trees are the sun pretending to burn a hole in the face of earth." In the dream I watched a corpse decay before my eyes and turn ratlike, and also understood what trees were. I understood it still, but less, when I awoke, and can still remember it a little, but with time it fades and so come deeper understanding, which I still look to find. But it's revelations like this (that one would call a personal language worthless) that transcend understanding, which is a dream understood by only the dreamer...although I'm not sure if when someone reads "trees are the sun pretending to burn a hole in the face of the earth" they will understand it as well. While the dream was deep, personal, and very insightful to God, truth, and reality, it was something only I dreamt; so to say.So, I find it contradictory for someone who speaks as if to have confidence that they're right and yet denies personal experiences and transcending, but still yet has confidence, which is a personal thing. They eat something else's body (food), and learn somebody else's knowledge (taught, or experienced by something they theirselves did not create or give to be learned), and drink and live in something they neither made nor do create, and yet when it comes to power and truth they believe that this power is yet something they theirselves did make; and deny the God and Spirit who gives them life. They look upon the universe with all their vast powerlessness, and then curse it by saying it is not a being; it no direction or power. It is virtually nothing in comparison to humanity, who in fact does think--even though they did not give theirselves thinking power, and though every human alive was preceded by another human who taught it, and grew it in its womb, and birthed it, and raised and fed it, and then they eat their food which preceded them as a living creature, which they neither inhabited nor grew or gave birth to, or fed or created, they only provided for, and then they drink the water and tread the earth which also preceded them, which they neither created nor existed so long enough so as to curse its age and tell it its nothing--for mankind alone has knowledge and ignorance; they say. What a great feat. You credit your power to your being, and mankind, which has such 'authority and capability', yet this very authoritive and capable universe which is more powerful than you (you cannot tell it what to do; unless of course you had faith great enough to that of God) and then whisper lies behind people's back that the universe is nothing. There is no God--no one as sentient as you, or your fellow human. No. You alone know the vastness of truth and knowledge. You alone tell the universe what it is, and what to do. This is your belief; this is the belief of an atheist.

Both, actually. I used scientific observation and explanation to prove this--especially to those who advocate the supremacy of science over religion, and yet religion itself has foreseen much and knows more than science.This message has been edited by umliak, 12-29-2004 16:10 AM

Great! I'm going to concentrate on the proof you have that your explanation of Biblical end time prophecies is accurate.Focusing on the new heaven and new earth, when you address the rest of Message 81 could you also share with me which end time prophecy verse(s) lead you to your conclusion concerning the new heaven and new earth?

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.