The continuation of art styles through a speculated flood

Just having come back from Athens and the Olympics, it dawned on me that there is another piece of evidence rejecting a literal reading of the Bible's account of a global flood taking place just a few thousand years ago:The Cyclades.The Cyclades are a group of Greek islands in the Agean Sea that are home to some of the earliest works of statuary we have. If you watched the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics, that big, primitive head of just a flat, triangular face with a nose bridge (no eyes, no mouth) is an example of Cycladic art.[From Early Cyclades I, about 3000 BCE]Now the thing is, and you'd think I would have remembered since my father was stationed in Greece and we have a copy of a Cycladic head, the Cycladic artistic period goes from about 3200 BCE to about 2000 BCE. And that's just the Early Cyclades.Now, a literal reading of the Bible and its chronology puts the flood somewhere in the third millenium BCE...right smack dab in the middle of the Early Cyclades. But this causes a problem: We have a continual artistic output during that time period.Now, ignoring the fact that none of these artworks show any sign of water damage, there is another question:Why would the descendants of Noah take up the Cycladic artistic model after the flood? If there were a global disaster that wiped out everybody except eight people, why would they pick up on the cultural traditions of a completely foreign society they knew nothing about and continue right where they left off?[From Early Cyclades II, about 2500 BCE]Perhaps it's because there was no global flood?

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

I think this makes problems form many people ... particularly for artists, as the term "modern art" is not enough to differentiate it from this stuff

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Another Blow! That poor dead horse is being beat into hamburger!lfen

RAZD responds to me:

quote:

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as the term "modern art" is not enough to differentiate it from this stuff

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Nah, if it were modern art, it'd be made out of garbage, have some sort of body fluid, or require an ethernet cable.

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Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

I think that would be post modern art, maybe contemporary art?Modern art did draw on african art for some of it's inspiration and I see some similiarities in your photographs of statues and some modern scupture. It's been too long and the artist name is not coming to me. Italian, did bronze heads. Been too long since I studied this its all cobwebs. Dang,but it was nice stuff. Those are very lovely statues, thanks for posting the photos.lfen

Looks alot like some of Reg Butler's work. IIRC I saw one similar at the Hirshhorn.This message has been edited by jar, 09-04-2004 09:52 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I just looked at that and said "hmmm, nothing new under the sun since?"heh.and I like the statue too. therefore it has to be modern (hehe)

It's like a lot of Henry Moore's work as well.
{Rescaled graphic to 100%, to restore page width to normal - AdminnemooseusAnd Henry Moore's Green Familyand Reg Butler's ManipulatorThis message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 09-06-2004 01:14 AM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

see -- that is proof the society now is as corrupt as it was before the flood!

Flood Legends From Around the WorldThe above link is for easy reference to what I am about to argue.The FACT that there are Flood accounts in diverse worldwide civilizations means a Flood happened.The Bible provides the origin and source and protected version of facts.It is pure nonsense to expect anyone to believe that the multiplicity of worldwide Flood accounts is not based upon a historical event.From South Amercica to the Middle East and across Eurasia and China Flood accounts exist. The existence of these accounts can only be attributed to a Flood occurring.

All those places flood, though. And their flood accounts don't match each other in terms of time, etc.Why is the only explanation One Big Flood? How can the One Big Flood have happened when so much evidence contradicts it?Let's say that I poll 100 children in each of 100 locations around the country. Every one of those groups has at least one child that has heard of or been to the Chuck E. Cheese pizzeria (you know, with the video games and the animatronic show. I use this as an example of a cultural myth because my parents never took me, so the place has a bit of a legendary feel to it to me, even though there's one in the mall down the road from here.)Is that evidence that all these kids used to live in the same town? Hardly. It's easily explained by the fact that there's a Chuck E. Cheese in most major cities.

Means floods, plural, happened, which they still do. Historical events, plural, possible.Pure nonsense? centuries of work in geology has failed to establish a world wide flood. The evidence against is repeated over and over here. Wanting the myths of the Bible to be historical fact is an excercise in delusion. The existence of these accounts can be attributed to a flood occuring at some point in time, but not the same flood. And you know that China, Egypt, and India predate the dates attributed to the story of a flood in the Bible and there is not evidence of them being wiped out in a flood in fact they continued right through it and never noticed.The Bible incorporates myths. Get over it.lfen

I don't think anyone would argue that floods have happened within human history. Even catastrophic floods: Catastrophic Flooding of The Black Sea
is an overview of a really great book by William Ryan & Walter Pitman called Noah's Flood. (Great read!)To summerize, they uncovered some pretty convincing evidence that a massive flooding event occured in the Black Sea with the high probability that there were significant human populations nearby due to poor environmental conditions in Europe and Fertile Crecent. The flooding would have happened such that the encroachment on land would be approx 1 mile per day! To any non-nomadic civilizations near the original coast of the Black Sea, this would have been a terrible thing, certainly worthy of myth. There are plenty of people who do not disregard the potential historic and geologic evidence for very catastrophic floods. Most people just know that the flood from these accounts was definitly not global. Certainly to the people who experienced it it may have seemed like their whole world was being flooded. If the children of God were present for this event why couldn't have God used this event in its mythological capacity to deliver a message of theologic importance to his people?By the way. As long as were are bringing up other flood myths, what came first Gilgamesh or Genesis?
COMPARISON OF BABYLONIAN AND NOAHIC FLOOD STORIESKudos and God Bless,

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-Nasser

The fact that all such myths have many very different and divergent accounts of those events proves that they are relating to different events.Agricultural societies began on floodplains, so one would expect every agricultural society to have a flood myth.What are some disparities? Many myths have creation starting with a flood and the earth rising out of it. You have an element of this in genesis too, with the seperation of water bit. None of these type myths have large boats with thousands of animals and the like, except those in the same general area of the middle east.The flood story that I like the best as a refutation of this argument is the Norse one (see The Norse Creation Myth): I'm sure everyone will see the surprising similarities that would show a common source experience for this and the biblical flood The commonality of a flod story and the uncommonality of what the flood stories actually say is evidence that they are NOT the same event, unless they all happened at the same time AND each one is a different experience of survival and NOT ONE is the unique story.Enjoy.{added by edit}This argument is an example of the fallacy of exclusion (see Forbidden): This message has been edited by RAZD, 09-06-2004 01:33 AM

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}