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Author Topic:   Endtime Prophecy and the European Union
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1349
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 271 of 313 (701217)
06-14-2013 4:59 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Faith
06-14-2013 4:30 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
Yes you can tick off all those differences and to your mind that makes us wrong. Again, this is all a subjective judgment, we CAN'T be wrong. This argument is really ridiculous. We're perfectly capable of toting up the differences ourselves. Obviously to us that's all unnecessary, but since you think it's necessary you actually think that makes you RIGHT?

Well, obviously this argument isn't going to get us anywhere. I just don't understand how this can be a matter of opinion. There's a description, and there's a thing that doesn't match that description. I'm at a loss what more to say, so I'll just leave you with this promotional phonecard from the 1990s, which I find unaccountably hilarious.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 4:30 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5159
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 272 of 313 (701218)
06-14-2013 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Faith
06-14-2013 4:30 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
Faith writes:

we CAN'T be wrong.

And that delusion of certainty is what make people to fly planes into tall buildings.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 4:30 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 9:49 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29619
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 273 of 313 (701223)
06-14-2013 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Faith
06-14-2013 4:30 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
Faith writes:

Yes you can tick off all those differences and to your mind that makes us wrong. Again, this is all a subjective judgment, we CAN'T be wrong. This argument is really ridiculous. We're perfectly capable of toting up the differences ourselves. Obviously to us that's all unnecessary, but since you think it's necessary you actually think that makes you RIGHT?

I don't doubt that you believe what you claim to believe, but what you are showing is that you are simply dishonest; that you do not believe in the Bible or what it says and worship the creation of men rather than of God.

That's okay; it's pitiful but okay. If you want to continue to be dishonest about what the Bible says that is fine.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 4:30 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26608
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 274 of 313 (701225)
06-14-2013 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Tangle
06-14-2013 5:21 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
Somehow "we can't be wrong" because there is no absolute certainty possible in such a subjective case translates in your mind to absolute certainty? The point is nobody could be right OR wrong on such a judgment call. What is the point in even trying to talk to people who think like you?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Tangle, posted 06-14-2013 5:21 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by PaulK, posted 06-14-2013 10:16 AM Faith has responded
 Message 276 by Coragyps, posted 06-14-2013 10:18 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 275 of 313 (701226)
06-14-2013 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Faith
06-14-2013 9:49 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
I would say that while your opinion might be subjective there is a good deal that is objective here. It is objective fact that the statue does not resemble the image of Revelation to any significant extent - and you made a similar argument about the other statue, so it's clear that you concede that this fact is relevant.

Whether the statues are intended to represent the image of Revelation is another question of fact, and the evidence is clear that they are not.

Whether the author of Revelation had anything like these statues in mind is also a question of fact and even if it can't be answered definitively it's pretty clear that you don't have much of a case.

So what's really going on here ? Is it simply desperation to find SOME sign that the End Times of your mythology (and I don't mean the Bible!) are upon us ? Or is it something else ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 9:49 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 10:23 AM PaulK has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5295
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 276 of 313 (701227)
06-14-2013 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by Faith
06-14-2013 9:49 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
What is the point in even trying to talk to people who think like you?

I ask myself that about folks that think a 1700-year-old collection of writings, frequently falsified by observation of the world around us, is the only guide available for moral conduct.


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 9:49 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26608
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 277 of 313 (701228)
06-14-2013 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by PaulK
06-14-2013 10:16 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
No desperation involved. A bunch of us IMMEDIATELY saw the Europa statue in terms of the woman on the beast in Revelation. Straightforward recognition. All the "objective" stuff is absolutely irrelevant.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by PaulK, posted 06-14-2013 10:16 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by PaulK, posted 06-14-2013 10:29 AM Faith has responded
 Message 279 by jar, posted 06-14-2013 10:38 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 282 by Tangle, posted 06-14-2013 11:42 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 306 by Astrophile, posted 04-05-2017 5:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 278 of 313 (701230)
06-14-2013 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
06-14-2013 10:23 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
How can you "recognise" it and why does the absence of a beast in the other statue matter, if the appearance of the statue is completely irrelevant ?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 10:23 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 11:29 AM PaulK has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29619
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 279 of 313 (701231)
06-14-2013 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
06-14-2013 10:23 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
Faith writes:

No desperation involved. A bunch of us IMMEDIATELY saw the Europa statue in terms of the woman on the beast in Revelation. Straightforward recognition. All the "objective" stuff is absolutely irrelevant.

I believe that. As you say, it doesn't matter what the Bible actually says rather what is relevant is your fantasies.

Got it.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 10:23 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26608
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 280 of 313 (701236)
06-14-2013 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by PaulK
06-14-2013 10:29 AM


WHO SAID THE APPEARANCE OF THE STATUE IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT? Obviously it has to have a woman on the back of a beast. That it's got.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by PaulK, posted 06-14-2013 10:29 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by PaulK, posted 06-14-2013 11:38 AM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 281 of 313 (701237)
06-14-2013 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Faith
06-14-2013 11:29 AM


quote:

WHO SAID THE APPEARANCE OF THE STATUE IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT? Obviously it has to have a woman on the back of a beast.

How do you determine which aspects of the statues appearance are relevant and which are not ? Especially given that the woman in Revelation is a symbolic image anyway.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 11:29 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 11:46 AM PaulK has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5159
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 282 of 313 (701238)
06-14-2013 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
06-14-2013 10:23 AM


Re: The woman in Revelation
Faith writes:


No desperation involved. A bunch of us IMMEDIATELY saw the Europa statue in terms of the woman on the beast in Revelation. Straightforward recognition. All the "objective" stuff is absolutely irrelevant.

This is what delusion and confirmation bias is - you IMMEDIATLEY saw something that "objectively" isn't there. You made a random object fit your delusion. The object is absolutely nothing like the biblical description of it, yet you made a match.

It's a perfect delusion and it's as clear as day to everyone but you.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 10:23 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 26608
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 283 of 313 (701239)
06-14-2013 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by PaulK
06-14-2013 11:38 AM


Like I said we immediately see the connection. Woman riding beast. We don't "determine" anything. Why is so much being made out of this very simple thing? There is no way there COULD be an exact match, all we COULD have is a hint at a similarity. Beast, woman riding. Very basic. But alone it probably wouldn't mean much. The shape of the building that reminds us of the Tower of Babel, the flag with the twelve stars in a circle that its designer saw as related to the Catholic interpretation of the woman in Revelation 12, the supposedly empty 666 seat which somebody said isn't empty but others say is. This is not some kind of hard and fast correspondence here, this is a collection of suggestions that some Christians find intriguing and in keeping with our understanding of how the last days are to play out. I don't hold any of it with an iron grip, it's all simply interestingly suggestive, nothing to deserve all this argument.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by PaulK, posted 06-14-2013 11:38 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by PaulK, posted 06-14-2013 11:57 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 285 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-14-2013 12:01 PM Faith has responded
 Message 286 by ringo, posted 06-14-2013 12:29 PM Faith has responded
 Message 295 by caffeine, posted 06-17-2013 5:08 AM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13311
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 284 of 313 (701240)
06-14-2013 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Faith
06-14-2013 11:46 AM


quote:

Like I said we immediately see the connection. Woman riding beast.

But why take this obviously superficial resemblance of unrelated images as anything significant ? You haven't explained a thing about that.

quote:

We don't "determine" anything

You certainly decided that the resemblance you saw was important and the lack of resemblance in all other areas was not important.

quote:

There is no way there COULD be an exact match, all we COULD have is a hint at a similarity. Beast, woman riding. Very basic. But alone it probably wouldn't mean much.

Why couldn't there be a greater resemblance ? That really makes no sense at all. It's quite possible to make a statue based directly on the image, which I will remind you is a symbolic image in a vision.

quote:

The shape of the building that reminds us of the Tower of Babel, the flag with the twelve stars in a circle that its designer saw as related to the Catholic interpretation of the woman in Revelation 12, the supposedly empty 666 seat which somebody said isn't empty but others say is. This is not some kind of hard and fast correspondence here, this is a collection of suggestions that some Christians find intriguing and in keeping with our understanding of how the last days are to play out.

They prove nothing more than your desperation to find "correspondences" with your mythology (and I remind you that I'm not talking about the Bible). The fact that you have images from both sides in the struggle depicted in Revelation only confirms that.

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 11:46 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11813
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 285 of 313 (701241)
06-14-2013 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Faith
06-14-2013 11:46 AM


Why is so much being made out of this very simple thing?

Because its incredibly stupid to see "Europa on the bull" as being "the harlot on the beast". They're too different to be seen as similar by anyone other than those with wishful thinking. It exposes the naivety and credulity of the Protestant end-times prophecy crap.

Europa rides a bull. A bull is nothing like the beast in Revelations.

From Message 161:

quote:
What I was thinking of is the statue of Europa riding a bull outside the building that houses the EU Parliament in Strasbourg and another in front of another EU building in Brussels. Christians immediately recognize this image as "the woman who rides the beast" in the Book of Revelation, who is generally understood to be the Harlot Church, a false worldwide religious system headed by the Vatican.

You're just grasping at straws. Its pretty pathetic, really.

Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 11:46 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 06-14-2013 1:05 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
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