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Author Topic:   "The Exodus Revealed" Video II
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 22 of 603 (130975)
08-06-2004 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by JimSDA
08-06-2004 10:37 AM


Re: Jesus' blood...
Jim asserts
But if you're a confirmed atheist evolutionist, you won't believe it.
You need to understand that the opposition to the revelations of Ron Wyatt or the Exodus video are not simply coming from Atheists. The vast majority of Christians also question what you folk claim.
The problem is that no real research has been done. The scientific method has not been applied in any of the cases. The basic investigations have been tainted by bias from the beginning.
This thread is about the Exodus video. Specifically, the video is not evidence. Having seen the video, I can say that there is not one single item, one single claim, that showed either any connection to the Biblical account of Exodus or even anything remarkable.
If there is evidence, I once again suggest that you pick one single item that you believe can be supported. Present and support that one item. After you establish that first step, take the next item. But so far, not one of those posting in support of the video have been able to sucessfuly support a single assertion.
At a minimum, list four or five things that you find significant and we can discuss them individually.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 10:37 AM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 11:11 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 603 (130983)
08-06-2004 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by JimSDA
08-06-2004 11:11 AM


Re: Moller's video...
And so once again, instead of providing us with supporting scientific evidence you resort to attacking the messenger.
Please. Can we deal with evidence.
Can you pick one item from the video that you believe can be supported and we will happily discuss it?
Here is a partial list of things that have been brought up by supporters of the video in past threads.
  • the split rock.
  • the coral formations.
  • the glyphs.
  • the land bridge.
  • the altar table.
Which one of these that you feel you can actually support and would like to start with?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 11:11 AM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 11:43 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 603 (131003)
08-06-2004 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by JimSDA
08-06-2004 11:43 AM


Re: Moller's video...
When the Saudi archaeologists saw the Egyptian style petroglyphs on the altar stones, they told us that they have NEVER seen Egyptian style petroglyphs anywhere in their country before! Hmmmmmm ... that must mean that people who came from Egypt actually ended up in Saudi Arabia ... just like it says in the Bible!
Again, simply an unsupported assertion.
Rock art similar to what has been shown is actually pretty common in Saudi Arabia. There are even books devoted to just that and several learned journals and societies that study such art throughout the Arabian pennisular.
Rock Art of Arabia
The book covers
Major portion of the book is covered by Saudi Arabia owing to abundance of material and vastness of the country. In fact, this is the first comprehensive book on Saudi Arabia's rock art covering and reviewing all the regions and describing stylistic traditions to be found there.
Notice that one of the things mentioned is the abundance of material.
But beyond the shere volume of rock art to be found in Saudi Arabia, there are additional problems with the specific samples you and other supporters have proposed.
First, they are alleged to be images of calves, yet what is actually shown is far more like bull, Ibex and other member of the antelope family.
Second, since rock art is fairly common throughout the penninsula, there is nothing to connect the drawings to the Exodus instead of any other group or people in the area.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 11:43 AM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 12:17 PM jar has replied
 Message 37 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 12:19 PM jar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 603 (131007)
08-06-2004 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by JimSDA
08-06-2004 12:17 PM


Re: Rock art book....
From Yatib, Saudi Arabia, dating from about 2400BCE.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 12:17 PM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 12:54 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 43 of 603 (131021)
08-06-2004 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by JimSDA
08-06-2004 12:54 PM


Re: Rock art book....
Ah, the great conspiricy ploy. LOL
First, I gave you the location, told you where they are. And it's not hard to find them or other examples. Did you know that there are even commercial tours that specialize in taking folk to see the rock art throughout the area. Google Rock Art and Arabia and you will find lots of resources.
There is no vast conspiricy to subvert what you have found, only immense disinterest and boredom. Notice that the date on the glyphs is from about 1000 years before your dating of the Exodus. Compare the drawings stylisticly to the one that I posted and you will see great similarities.
Now, look at the style of art from Egypt in the 1400BCE era.
Here, there is none of the crudity found in the samples you supplied. This is a very sophisticated and refined art.
What you provided is far more typical of art from 1000 years earlier. It is typical of the pictographs found among the earlier inhabitants of the area, not of the people that only a short while before were supposedly helping build the monuments of Egypt.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 12:54 PM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 4:17 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 62 of 603 (131158)
08-06-2004 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Yaro
08-06-2004 9:16 PM


Re: Map of Exodus route
Yaro.
I was lucky enough to find this map of the route that proves things once and for all.
I don't see how anyone can possibly ignore evidence like this.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Yaro, posted 08-06-2004 9:16 PM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by CK, posted 08-06-2004 10:10 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 64 of 603 (131162)
08-06-2004 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by CK
08-06-2004 10:10 PM


Re: Map of Exodus route
No, but I can print up about 150 copies. If you thumb them you'll be able to see the actual trek in progress.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by CK, posted 08-06-2004 10:10 PM CK has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 73 of 603 (131201)
08-06-2004 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Buzsaw
08-06-2004 10:57 PM


Re: Map of Exodus route
stick to refutation of the specific evidences presented.
Buz.
Just for you.
Assertation: there are glyphs of calves.
Refutation: the glyphs shown are typical of glyphs from throughout North Africa dating to about 1000 years before the alleged Exodus and so do not offer any evidence of connection to the Exodus.
Assertion: there are indications of chariot wheels.
Refutation: all that is shown is coral formations. No wheels have been presented for independant verification. Even if shown to be chariot wheels and from the 18th dynasty, there is nothing to connect them with the Exodus.
Assertion: Gulf of Aqaba land bridge.
Refutation: no outside sources show that it exists. The information in video is incomplete and poorly done. The grade is simply done by extending grades near the shore as though they continue all the way across. Even if it is true there is no connection to the Exodus.
Shall we go on?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2004 10:57 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2004 11:37 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 76 of 603 (131205)
08-06-2004 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Buzsaw
08-06-2004 11:32 PM


Forgot one.
Assertion: split rock.
Refutation: simply typical errosions. I posted pictures of similar erosion from all over the world. No way to connect it to any specific event or the Exodus.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2004 11:32 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2004 11:44 PM jar has replied
 Message 96 by JimSDA, posted 08-07-2004 11:42 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 82 of 603 (131215)
08-07-2004 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Buzsaw
08-06-2004 11:44 PM


Re: Forgot one.
Buz.
What makes the split rock in the video different from any of the other photos of similar erosion for all over the world?
Simple question. First of several on this one specific example.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2004 11:44 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Buzsaw, posted 08-07-2004 12:35 AM jar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 85 of 603 (131240)
08-07-2004 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Buzsaw
08-06-2004 11:37 PM


Re: Map of Exodus route
Buz
Let's discuss the glyphs. The glyphs shown in the video are typical of drawings found all over northern Africa and Arabia dating from about 3000-2000 BCE. I included a similar drawing found in Saudi Arabia, but the style and content was common throughout the area, from Lybia all the way around to Persia.
The specific drawings that the video identifies as calves, actually look far more like cattle, Ibex and other antelope.
Since the drawings are typical of those from a period about 1000 years before the date for the Exodus asserted in the video, what evidence can any of you provide that they are not just more stone age pictoglyphs? What connection was there to the Exodus? Why would the Hebrews have placed drawings of antelope on what is claimed to be an altar?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Buzsaw, posted 08-06-2004 11:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 87 of 603 (131245)
08-07-2004 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by JimSDA
08-06-2004 4:17 PM


Re: Really Stupid Statements...
The Saudis hate Jews and Christians, and since this site might be Mt. Sinai, AND THEY KNOW IT, the Saudis won't let any Jewish or Christian archaeologists go there!
Jim
Misdirection and shell game again?
Moses is one of the Prophets of Islam as well as Christiantiy and Judaism. If they could prove the story of the Exodus as told in the Old Testament it would be confirmation of their religion as well as all the other Judaic religions.
Why would they want to prove one of their own prophets wrong or hide evidence that supports their own prophets?
But back on topic.
I showed you a sample of art from about the time you allege the Exodus occured. I also showed you a sample of rock art dating from about 1000 years earlier. The glyphs that you assert should date from about 1400BCE are far more like those from about 3000 BCE. In addition, many seem to depict cattle, Ibex, Oryx and other members of the antelope family and NONE look like calves.
Why would Hebrews place images of Ibex, Oryx and Antelope on an altar that you say was devoted to worshiping and sacrificing calves?
What methods were used to date the glyphs?
What comparisons with other glyphs throughout the area were done?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by JimSDA, posted 08-06-2004 4:17 PM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by JimSDA, posted 08-07-2004 12:16 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 97 of 603 (131318)
08-07-2004 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by JimSDA
08-07-2004 11:42 AM


More shell games
Jim:
The post you are responding to said
Assertion: split rock.
Refutation: simply typical errosions. I posted pictures of similar erosion from all over the world. No way to connect it to any specific event or the Exodus.
It dealt with a very specific question.
You respond with something about Solomon's Fleet (something certainly nor related to the Exodus or the period when you claim it happened). You also use the assertions of Moller to support other assertions of Moller. That's like saying Carl Sagan is right because Carl Sagan says he is right.
The resaon that the vast majority of folk don't buy into the premise presented in the Exodus Video is because you folk have no support for the assertions and claims that you make.
I have asked a few simple questions.
How is the split rock any different than any similar erossion example from all over the world?
What was used to connect the rock to the Exodus?
What dating methods were used?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by JimSDA, posted 08-07-2004 11:42 AM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by JimSDA, posted 08-07-2004 12:26 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 100 of 603 (131325)
08-07-2004 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by JimSDA
08-07-2004 12:16 PM


Re: Moslem countries....
Once again, shell game. Attack the messenger and change the subject.
You did not answer my question. If you could prove that Mt. Sinai was in Saudi Arabia that would simply add one more holy site to the existing list.
Why would Saudi Arabia (home to two of the most Sacred sites in Islam) not want to add yet another one?
You allege that they don't want to help you support your particular beleief system. So don't support it. Support the story of Moses and the Exodus from the Islamic belief system. It's the same GOD, the same tablets, the same story.
Your excuses are just plain silly. ISLAM accepts all the same tales from the Old Testament as Christianity and Judaism. The stories are all about the same (although women sure come out better in the Islamic version of the Garden of Eden).
So answer the question. Why would Saudi Arabia (home to two of the most Sacred sites in Islam) not want to add yet another one?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by JimSDA, posted 08-07-2004 12:16 PM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by JimSDA, posted 08-07-2004 12:32 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 101 of 603 (131326)
08-07-2004 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by JimSDA
08-07-2004 12:26 PM


Re: Rock your world....
Again, shell game.
What are the visible differences between water and wind erosion. What are the obvious signs of water erosion that are different from wind erosion and heat cracks?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by JimSDA, posted 08-07-2004 12:26 PM JimSDA has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by JimSDA, posted 08-07-2004 12:37 PM jar has replied

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