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Author | Topic: "The Exodus Revealed" Video II | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!!!??? I did not know a new thread was started!!!! Sorry guys, but I've been offline for 2 days now because we were in the middle of a transfer from dialup to DSL.
NOW WE HAVE VERIZON DSL and comes along with MSN Premium! It sure is fast! I could never go back to dialup! Anyway, to PaulK, I have some posts typed up on Word addressing issues from the old thread, and never was able to post them due to the thread closing, and service transfer. I have more evidence for why I believe there is validity in rewriting Egyptian history, and this data will be coming soon. There is actually so much more that support Moller's theory, regarding the 18th dynasty, and the true dating of the Exodus. So stay tuned folks... Brian, There is a whole slew of extra info that lead us to believe the Exodus happened during the 18th dynasty besides Merneptah's stele, so I wouldn't put too much weight on that...since even if you are right, it doesn't negate all the other overwhelming evidence that completely negates a 19th dynasty scenario. ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
Brian, "turn back" simply means they were on their way to the promised land (on top of the Gulf of Aqaba), and God told them to "turn back to Pi-hahorith", meaning, "instead of going on, turn back to go into the Wadi that leads to Pi-hahorith".
This picture clears up what that verse is talking about:
What waste of time of trying to figure out that silly verse folks. All you have to do is look at the map correctly, and you can easily figure out what it means:
Thanks to Andrew Jones (Arkeologist) for providing me this map We must realize that they reached Etham, went forward, turned back, entered the Wadi to to camp at Pi-Hahorith, crossed the Red Sea, and landed at Etham again. Nothing mysterious about that verse if you try and visualize it using a map. This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 08-06-2004 07:59 PM ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
JimSDA
No problem bud! Anytime...anytime... I'd studied Exodus 14:2 (and the other verses) for about 2 days straight a week ago before this subject was even brought up, so it turned out good. ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
Charles,
I would love to go and answer your questions in detail. I'm at peace, because I know there are straight forward answers for everyone of them. However, I have a whole bunch of other pending projects at the moment, and at the same time, I kind of feel intimidated by your demands. I pesonally don't feel it necessary go answer all those questions, when they have virtually all been thoroughly answered on websites--especially the 10 part Newsletter that gives you the whole chronology from beginning to end, with every lab test, with every statement made by many experts, etc. etc. It isn't going to be easy convincing me or motivating me to feel that there is a dire need for me to respond to your questions. ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
John Williams
quote: I appreciate your open question. I wish some of the other's on this board would conduct a similar spirit. The answer to your questin is, yes, we believe we have sufficient evedence. From beginning to end, I believe there has been a total of 15 pictures of chariot parts and wheels. Half of those are clearly identifiable as "chariot wheels", the other half are odd-shaped "twisted wreckage". Other than that, I underwater photos of human bones, horse bones, and cattle bones. Seeing that you are new, I understand how difficult it must be to go back through the different threads and locate all the posts with photos and discussions regarding the evidence. However, for your sake, sometime between today and tomorrow night, I will go throughout this forum identifying each post with the data and photos you've missed out on, and link them for you in this thread. How's that? Keep up your openminded attitude...I guarantee you...it will get you far in life There is SOO much out there! ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
John Williams,
Here's your info. I went browsing throughout both of the old threads and pulled the links where I posted my old messages. There is a ton of info couched in these threads. I also encourage reading the rebuts of the critics as well as the messages that some of my messages were meant to be responses to: Read Message 81 & 82EvC Forum: Theory: Why The Exodus Myth Exists Read Message 149EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Read Message 170 & 179EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Read Message 229! (very good) & 240EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Read Message 247 (Brian’s evidence against Wyatt/Moller’s Thutmosis/Amenhotep theory), and then my response in Message 254:http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 263 (underwater landbridge measurements), and Message 267Dating the Wheels on the Sea Bed (VERY GOOD!)http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 274 (the varied silly reasons critics come up with regarding the wheels):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 287 (Brian’s Cognitive Dissonance) topic, Message 300 (My Response, with explanation on Yam Suph):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 302 (Brian), Message 308 (My response):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 330:http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 332:http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 393 & 394 (regarding contributors to upcoming Exodus Case film, and Document I wrote up on how wheels CANNOT be Assyrian):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 402 (IMPORTANT CHARIOT & BONEPHOTOS!) and Message 403!:http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 408 (by Hydarnes), and Message 416 (me) concerning Chariot Wheel inscriptions):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 422, 427:http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 447 (by Hydarnes):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 458:http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 499:http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO MESSAGE 527 (by HydarnesNotice the CLEAR SIMILARITIES between the Osprey Military Chariot Wheel Illustrations vs. the Gold Gilt wheel identified at the bottom of Aqaba!):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 564 (pay attention to the logic behind this post of mine):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO Message 576 (by Arkeologist):http://EvC Forum: "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO ---------------------------------------------------------- And for your benefit, here are some of the best websites so that you may get the necessary info regarding the discoveries made by Ronald E. Wyatt: 1. A1 Finds: Noah's Ark, Ark of Covenant and other discoveries!2. Anchor Stone International - Ron Wyatt, Noah's Ark, Sodom & Gomorrah, Red Sea Crossing, Ark of the Covenant 3. Wyatt Archaeological Research 4. Pinkoski.com – Works of Jim Pinkoski 5. http://www.pilgrimpromo.com/WAR/ 6. Wyatt Archaeological Research 7. The Hebrew Red Sea Crossing (Exodus) 8. http://www.covenantkeepers.co.uk/ 9. Forbidden 10. Forbidden 11. http://www.surprisingdiscoveries.com/ 12. Anchor Stone International - Ron Wyatt, Noah's Ark, Sodom & Gomorrah, Red Sea Crossing, Ark of the Covenant 13. http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/...RCMArkeology/6Durupinar.html 14. Ark of the Covenant, Ron Wyatt All of these links will be valuable information to you!--------------------------------------------------------- Most of these links should work. I provided them earlier, and some got 404 errors. Save them anyway because you never know when the servers may be back up: In Defense of Wyatt: 1. Page not found – Pinkoski.com 2. http://www.webspawner.com/users/mccoy007/ 3. Forbidden 4. Forbidden 5. Frequently Asked Questions 6. Page not found - Anchor Stone International 7. Page not found - Anchor Stone International---------------------------------------------- And once again, don't forget to watch the two video clips of Lennart Moller's upcoming Television Series called "The Exodus Case". It is a 3hr/3part presentation that will be aired sometime near the end of this year (according to what Mahoney Media Group told me via email): 2022 -app Direct link to video clips: Mahoney Media – Page not found So there you have it ------------------------------------------------ JimSDA, What do you mean Moller has a 30 min. TV program coming out? It clearly says 3hr/3part. Are you talking about something else I haven't heard of? ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
JimSDA,
As you'll notice, I've been rather quiet lately when it comes to responding to Charles Knight. I think by now it is pretty conclusive that he has made himself one of the biggest fools on this board when it comes to properly perceiving evidence. We've done our duty already to provide him links that answer our questions, but yet he insists us to answer each of them. You know why? Because he knows that if we "concede", for example, that no lab tests have been conducted on the chariot parts, then he'll feel he has something "up on us". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that all you need is a picture and video footage to see there are chariot wheels down there. What does Charles think, THAT LAB TESTS ARE GOING TO BE OF BENEFIT IN REGARD TO WHICH CIVILIZATION THE WHEELS BELONG TO??! Give me a break! The only lab test you need is a CAMERA!!! Wood is wood, but what do lab tests do when there is no wood? What can lab tests do when it has been viritually impossible to excavate these wheels due to Saudi law? What can lab tests do when the lack of proper salvaging equipment has prevented us from raising the gold gilt wheel? All of his questions can thoroughly be answered if his questions were pertaining SOLELY to Noah's Ark (but he knows this topic is not about Noah's Ark). Instead, he DEMANDS that some independent scientists have to do LAB tests on these chariot wheels! He is purposely asking questions that he knows have no merit to the necessary methods that have needed to be employed for this particular biblical discovery. He doesn't understand how the current shifts in the Gulf of Aqaba. He doesn't understand the difficulty nor nature of raising chariot wheels where the coral tends to just "fall apart" in peices". We have logically showed that these coral shapes are the same shapes of the wheels Egyptians utilized on their chariots. This goes in direct harmony with ALL of the other evidence regarding the proper route, camping locations, pillars of Solomon, underwater pathway, Mt. Sinai in Arabia...etc. He just doesn't want to face the facts that when it comes to biblical discoveries, the scientific methods for properly unraveling them is of a different nature from the traditional/biased methods scientists use. Until he concedes to this, it is useless debating with him. He's a close-minded infidel who hates any idea related to the possibility of divine intervention. PaulK,
quote: PaulK, I entreat you to take the issues presented concerning the land bridge in its entirety. You can’t just pick on pieces here and there and try to say that we are completely dead wrong about this land bridge. Let me make it clear that Moller does not mention 850 but he does mention 800. Bear in mind that it was the US National Geophysical Data Center that suggested a distinct underwater bridge from coast to coast with a maximum depth of approximately 100 metres. You need to understand that Moller is trying to be balanced about this whole issue here, and that lends is IMMENSE credibility. Seeing that you are so apt for OFFICIAL investigations, it seems that you would automatically side for the OFFICIAL survey, but seeing that it goes against your idea, now you turn and side with Moller! Now Moller is more credible than the US National Geophysical Data Center! Now seeing that I lost my entire post regarding Moller’s chapter on the land bridge, I will repost it so that you may thoroughly critique it. Notice CAREFULLY that Moller is being very careful to not SIDE with the extreme outputs by ANY of the data survey sources!: 42. HOW DID THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL CROSS THE RED SEA? The Gulf of Aqaba is part of a long rocky cleft, the Rift Valley, which stretches from present day Israel down to Africa. The cleft is due to the fact that there are two continental plates here, which each move in their own direction. The Gulf of Aqaba is therefore deep, with a maximum depth of 1900 metres surrounding by high mountains of up to 2500 metres in height. Now if the water divided itself, it would not be the solution to the Israelite’s problem. With a depth of water of about 1900 metres even with all the water gone, an enormous cleft faces the people of Israel. 42.1. An UnderwaterBridge It so happens that at Nuweiba there is a flat underwater bridge across the Red Sea. Typical of the Gulfof Aqaba are high mountain ranges up to 2500 metres in height which enclose the gulf. These mountains mostly go straight down into the sea. The Gulf of Aqaba has two deep basins: the northern is approximately 900 metres deep, and the southern approximately 1900 metres deep. The usual maritime maps of the area are of limited value. The reason is that it is so deep and with no islands 9except for a few close to the coast), so there have not been any detailed surveys. Therefore, it is not unusual that relatively large vessels have no sonars or maritime maps when trafficking the Gulf of Aqaba. At Nuweiba the coast is totally different. The Nuweiba peninsula is very flat and goes 3.5 km straight out into the gulf. This peninsula is so big that it is easily recognizable on all maps and from satellites. From the Saudi-Arabian it is similar, although not so pronounced, situation. The Saudi-Arabian coast opposite Nuweiba is very flat and also similar to Nuweiba character. Massive erosion has over the ages washed out huge amounts of sand and gravel fro the surrounding mountains via the wadis. This has geerated the flat areas on both sides. Consequently one can expect these flat areas to continue under water. Is this the case at Nuweiba? Official data from the US National Geophysical Data Center suggest that there is a distinct underwater bridge from coast to coast with a maximum depth of approximately 100 metres. However, this data is not reliable since there is some 9 km between each point of measurement, and the computerized extrapolation of data based on such great distances between points of measurements is statistically weak.
[b][Editors note: Just notice Moller’s credibility here! Here it is the OFFICIAL reports SAYING THERE IS AN UNDERWATER LAND BRIDGE! And Moller is being honest by stating this report cannot be fully relied on! Oh, will you critics NOW believe Moller? After all, it is YOU who doesn’t want there to be an underwater bridge! Now that Moller is mentioning something within your turf, it’s alright, right?] Maps of unknown identity actually show an underwater bridge character at Nuweiba. In figure 334 an example of such a map is shown.
In figure 335 a Russian map suggest an underwater shallow area between Nuweiba and the Saudi-Arabian coast.
At Nuweiba, the distance from coast to coast is approximately 14 km. From the Saudi-Arabian coast it is as shallow as 87 m 4 km out from the coast line. If this is correct and transferable to both sides, it corresponds to a gradient of 2.2%. After studying the underwater bridge from the Nuweiba side by a remote controlled underwater camera, the following data was acquired. The bottom was followed every meter at 0.458 nautic mile (848 metres) with the camera. The starting point was approximately 1200 metres from the coast line. The depth at that point was 28 metres. Fro this point the bottom was extraordinary flat to the end of the measurement where it was 82 metres deep. The depth was confirmed by the depth from the camera transferred to the surface and the length of the cable to the camera. The sea-bed was similar to the peninsula (see the cover of this book) in terms of the character of the ground, as well as in width and the very pronounced flatness with no obstacles. In figures 336 and 337 the character of the sea bed can be seen. Figures 336 and 337 represent overviews of the sea bed down to 82 metres.
The very flat character of the underwater bridge is also found on the Saudi-Arabian coast (figure 338).
The change in depth from 28 to 82 metres (54 metres) at a distance of 848 metres (determined by satellite navigation) indicates a gradient of 6.4%. Or from the shore to the end of the measurement it corresponds to 4.0%. In figure 339 a graphic representation is shown of this data. The solid curve in the left part (the Sinai coast) is from measurements by the underwater camera, and the similar curve from the east coast (Saudi-Arabia) is from the Russian map of figure 334.
The dotted line is an extrapolation of the curves assuming that they continue with the same grade. If this is the case, the maximum depth is approximately 240 metres. A map produced by J.K. Hall and Z. Ben-Avraham at The Israel Geological Survey exists. This map, which is based on the best available data and the survey, can confirm two matters: a broad underwater bridge at Nuweiba between the Nuweiba peninsula and the Saudi-Arabian coast; and a flat gradient. This data is in accordance with the underwater camera measurements and the Russian data although the Israeli measurements were done more extensively and in deeper waters. The Israeli data suggest a maximum depth at approximately 800 metres. It should be noted that the actual curves from the Israel Geological Survey have been extrapolated from a number of measurements, and that there might be more shallow areas at the suggested crossing site. A calculation of the crossing, based on the Israeli data, indicate a mean downhill gradient of 12% (west coast) and an uphill (east coast) gradient of 15% (70. J. Harned (2000), Discovery Media Productions, Los Angeles, USA, personal communication.). The American Disability Act accepts a gradient range of 8.3%-12.5% (new and old buildings, respectively) for disabled people (38. Accessibility Guidelines for Buildings and Facilities (ADAAG) (1988), USA.). These gradients or slopes are graphically shown in figure 340, showing that even when the suggested deepest scenario have been used, the limits are very close to the American gradients accepted for disabled people.
The underwater land bridge of the investigated area has the following characteristics: 1. Very limited vegetation (some grass-like plants in limited areas) 2. No corals (except at the coast line) [Editors note: This has nothing to do with the coral encrusted chariot wheels. He’s talking about regular coral, and elaborates on this later in the book] 3. No pieces of rock 4. No mountainous formations 5. No steep slopes 6. No organic sediments (like mud) 7. Extremely flat 8. Very broad (at least 2 km) 9. The sea-bed is covered by sand and gravel This means that if the water is removed and the sand is dried, there is solid ground to walk on. Further, the calculated gradient (based on the deepest depth scenario) is close to what is accepted for disabled people. The gradient corresponds to a change of 22-150 metres per km (or 2-15 cm/linear meter) with the deepest depth scenario. With a very flat area and no obstacles this gradient is possible to walk across. From the texts (Exodus and Josephus) it is clear that there were no obstacles on the sea-bed suggesting a flat sea-bed. The total distance with the different calculations of gradients is in the range of 14.5-22 km if the Israelites walked straight across. One can make calculations but there are three important issues concerning this matter. 1. The unusual character of the sea-bed making it look like a highway or a very wide (at least 2 km wide) underwater bridge. 2. There is no natural explanation to how the water (according to the text) was cut apart. 3. If the water was cut apart there would be a dry solid ground and the gradient would be possible to walk or ride across. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: I think Moller just answered this question for you above in his point lists. When we refer and use the term land bridge, we are referring to the only place on the Gulf of Aqaba where there is gentle gradient level that allows a smooth pathway (crossing). Moller is only stating that of all the surveys conducted (Moller’s survey, US survey, Saudi survey, Russian survey), the deepest survey scenario was around 800 meters. Based on all the surveys, we can safely conclude that indeed, there is a distinct sort of underwater, gentle sloping gradient, land bridge. I think it was jar who nitpicked on one of Moller’s statements and falsely exploited it to his benefitmustering this as his pitiable excuse to disqualify Moller as a credible source. His excuse was based on this comment Moller made for Figure 339: . If the gradients would go across the gulf the maximum depth would be approximately 240 metres (dotted lines) What Jar doesn’t realize, however, is that Moller is being extremely cautious, since we are playing with varied outputs here. The word IF is supported by connecting the measurements made by Moller from the Sinai coast (using an underwater camera) and the extended measurements made by the Russians on the Saudi side. Moller specifically states: This data [data from Figure 339] is in accordance with the underwater camera measurements and the Russian data although the Israeli measurements were done more extensively and in deeper waters. However, statements like this seem to fly RIGHT OVER jar’s head. This gives me reason to wonder whether he really reads the data I provide with a fine tooth comb, or just skims the surface. It should be also noted that following the above quote, Moller states: The Israeli data suggest a maximum depth at approximately 800 metres. It should be noted that the actual curves from the Israel Geological Survey have been extrapolated from a number of measurements, and that there might be more shallow areas at the suggested crossing site. So as you can see here, Moller is being cautious to not take one data source and completely disregard the others. It seems that this is what both you and jar are doing. You pick on ONLY the particular data that suits you, but completely disregard the other. However, if you take all the data produced in it’s entirety, you will clearly see that there is indeed, a distinct clear pathway here that exists nowhere else in the Gulf of Aqaba. Based on the measurements by the Israel Geological Surveys, we can DISTINCTLY see on the maps I provided earlier a shallower segment protruding (based on the colors) across Nuweiba beach to the Saudi coast. Our conclusions are based on the whole of ALL the data put together. This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 08-08-2004 10:19 PM ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
jar, you need to read the last 11 paragraphs I addressed to PaulK regarding the underwater landbridege in my above post.
~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
Trae,
This wheel is a computer enhanced image. It tells you this right in the "Exodus Revealed" tape. You would have noted this had you taken the time to view the video:
It was enhhanced to help the viewer understand the exact shape and style the wheel is. ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
Thanks Jim and Buz for holdin' the fort as best you can. But do not despair...
Hyd and I have some wammys uh commin'! This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 08-09-2004 12:22 PM ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
We do have photos where you can see the center of the wheel better. I provided this one a while back. This, nor any of the others that are from the top are computerized in any way:
Moller has these pics in his book too. The coral piece covers very little...so little that you don't even need to remove it to know what it looks like. The wheel is still in its place, and its location has been marked by W.A.R. They plan to go back as soon as they are able to raise the funds and get cooperation from the Saudi government. Hopefully, the shifting sands have not permanently covered so much to the extent where it would be impossible to excavate. About this vacation resort: Note that Nuweiba beach is huge. The main resorts lie on the northern part of Nuweiba. The chariot wheels are found across the southern part of the bridge, and you also must go out far enough to see them. I might also add that when Ron and his team did the diving, they went out into deep waters. One day the chariot parts could be easily identified. Another day they would come back and they were not there. These shifting sands out in the deeper parts make it really difficult. ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
quote: It is evidence. Plenty of evidence for those who accept it as evidence, and no evidence for those who refuse to accept it as evidence. It is as simple as that. Evolutionists for example use their digging up of bones and fossil layers to support their theories of Evolution and say it is "evidence"--while to the contrary, I do not accept it as evidence. We believe that these chariot wheels in "CONJUNCTION" with the overall grand pattern we have presented here poses significant evidence. ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
Jar, I could care less about anything you say anymore. Your ideas to me are BOGUS! I have no respect for anymore of your posts. You're a hot tempered man that needs happiness in his life. If only you would see how happy you could be by accepting Jesus as your saviour.
This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 08-09-2004 01:14 PM ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
Charles,
quote: So? What do you think cameras are for? So what if they are lost. Things get lost because it is more difficult for amatuer archaeologists to keep things together. However, if they don't go out and do it, nobody will! Someone has to do it, whether they have the money or not. If they lose a few things in the process, that does not negate the overall picture of wheel sitings. Photos, Video footage, and testimonies testify to the validity of these finds. It's as simple as that. ~Lysimachus
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Lysimachus Member (Idle past 5190 days) Posts: 380 Joined: |
Jar,
Here is your opportunity to raise your credibility:
quote: List to me every single campaign that ever took place in this area around Nuweiba beach. I want documented sources of every campaign, by which civilizations, and over what. ~Lysimachus
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