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Author Topic:   Aliens and the Bible
ElOne
Junior Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 23
Joined: 09-05-2007


Message 76 of 147 (420292)
09-07-2007 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Vacate
09-07-2007 9:34 AM


The Bible was written with the available words, "distinctions" available at the time. Aliens were not an every day word back then. It wasnt even spoken with any credibility until the Roswell incident. Even now its credibility is questioned. It doesnt invalidate the Bible messsage, it may enhance it. Just like PE is trying to enhance the idea of evolution. I would say the interpretation with modern language distinctions would be closer to the true meaning than and older one; "for todays believers". It doesnt invalidate the other translations because they were correct for the language of the time
This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Vacate, posted 09-07-2007 9:34 AM Vacate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Vacate, posted 09-07-2007 10:24 AM ElOne has responded

    
ElOne
Junior Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 23
Joined: 09-05-2007


Message 77 of 147 (420293)
09-07-2007 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Ihategod
09-06-2007 1:05 PM


Re: WHATCHOO TALKIN' BOUT' WILLIS?!
I deleted this post because it was a duplicate of message 75. I didnt realize it was already submitted once.

Edited by ElOne, : A duplicate of message 75, sorry about that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Ihategod, posted 09-06-2007 1:05 PM Ihategod has not yet responded

    
Vacate
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 78 of 147 (420296)
09-07-2007 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by ElOne
09-07-2007 10:03 AM


I would say the interpretation with modern language distinctions would be closer to the true meaning than and older one; "for todays believers".

But then in a sense aren't you saying that the true message of the bible changes along with the evolution of language?

I agree with you in the idea that had there been a UFO in those times they would have ascribed it to miracles. However, if you are saying that this is in fact what the bible is saying - what else is incorrect? How much of the bible is open for UFO minded interpetation?

It doesnt invalidate the other translations because they were correct for the language of the time

True, but it does invalidate the writers interpretation of events he does not understand.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 10:03 AM ElOne has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 11:17 AM Vacate has responded
 Message 95 by Ihategod, posted 09-09-2007 12:51 AM Vacate has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30845
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 79 of 147 (420297)
09-07-2007 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by ElOne
09-07-2007 9:23 AM


Good Lord.
Yes it uses the term Lord, and it is still common imagery for the period.

Look, you are free to believe in Flying Saucers and Aliens in the Bible if you want.

If you read the rest of the definition you will find that when the first letter is capitalized the term Lord can refer to God.

The issue is not what CAN be imagined, I have already said you can make up most anything. The issue is with what is probable, and there is no evidence of either Aliens or Spaceships ever visiting Earth.

When you look at the Hebrew Scriptures using todays wod bank, a whole different message emerges.

Uh, no. Using todays word bank you can make up whole new stores from the material.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 9:23 AM ElOne has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 11:28 AM jar has not yet responded

  
ElOne
Junior Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 23
Joined: 09-05-2007


Message 80 of 147 (420301)
09-07-2007 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Vacate
09-07-2007 10:24 AM


Vacate said, "But then in a sense aren't you saying that the true message of the bible changes along with the evolution of language?" That is exactly what I am saying. Part of Daniel's Prophesy was to be put aside for another time not yet here, because it would not be understood then. The implication is that events have not taken place yet that would make the prophecy understandable. The Bible also says all will be understood before the end. Nothing is incorrect. It's meaning is better understood. "How much of the bible is open for UFO minded interpretation?" Reread Exodus with UFO's in mind. A great cloud hovering over the Hebrews giving shade in the daytime and light by night. After the Hebrews built the Tabernacle, the cloud would sit over it and stay there until it was time to move on; then it would raise up and lead them. When Jesus was baptized, a cloud picked him up and carried him off to the wilderness. In Matt 17 Jesus took Peter, James and John to a high mount and spoke to his ancestors while a "bright" cloud stood overhead that even spoke to Peter. Like I said, reading the Bible with today's understand brings a whole new meaning to the Scriptures. It doesnt invalidate the older translations; it brings new clarity and understanding to them.
No it doesnt invalidate the writer's interpretation because at the time it "was" valid. Those earlier interpretations did what they were suppose to do, keep Faith alive, just as the newer interpretation will do the same; until the "final" interpretation is fully understood.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Vacate, posted 09-07-2007 10:24 AM Vacate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Vacate, posted 09-07-2007 11:55 AM ElOne has responded

    
ElOne
Junior Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 23
Joined: 09-05-2007


Message 81 of 147 (420302)
09-07-2007 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by jar
09-07-2007 10:33 AM


Re: Good Lord.
Jar said, "Uh, no. Using todays word bank you can make up whole new stores from the material." I dont make it up; I use a version of the Bible that uses Strong's Concordance and research the definition of the "interpretation". Medicine had a symptom and diagnosis called "consumption". It was an unexplainable wasting away that eventually led to death. As science progressed the diagnosis was relegated to a "symptom" only and newer "distinctions" were used for the diagnosis; ie, cancer and tuberculosis. It doesnt invalidate the symptom of consumption; now that it is better understood it created new words to use for a better and more accurate diagnosis
This message is a reply to:
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Vacate
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 82 of 147 (420308)
09-07-2007 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by ElOne
09-07-2007 11:17 AM


Aliens and the flood
The Bible also says all will be understood before the end. Nothing is incorrect. It's meaning is better understood.

Do you have any proof that we are near "the end", if not then how do you know that this language, at this time is conductive to a correct interpretation? (or a better understood interpretation of meaning)

Reread Exodus with UFO's in mind.

Better yet read about the flood with UFO's in mind!!

---------------
Seeing the unfortunate results of his experiment Emperor Plptn beams up Noah and his family to a secure location in orbit near the small moon of Endor (Pronounced Moon in modern English)

“As you can see, my young apprentice, your friends have failed. Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL battle station!”

A relaxing voyage in a Virtual Reality simulator and a uneventful launch of the Genesis Torpedo and the world as we know it is devoid of flood evidence without “invalidating the other translations”

----------

Sounds like I am just making shit up, and I am.

Those earlier interpretations did what they were suppose to do, keep Faith alive, just as the newer interpretation will do the same

But are they stories that are meant to convey reality or just a method of keeping the faith? If its just a story than how can it become more true as the language evolves?

Oh - Try this if you are wondering how to get the quote boxes.

[qs]quote boxes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:

quote boxes are easy

You can also hit the "Peek" button on the bottom of peoples posts if you wonder what various codes they have used.

Sorry for the theft of your code Razd!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 11:17 AM ElOne has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 2:10 PM Vacate has not yet responded
 Message 116 by ElOne, posted 09-11-2007 10:31 AM Vacate has responded

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 408 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 83 of 147 (420310)
09-07-2007 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Rob
09-07-2007 9:37 AM


Way to totally miss the point of the analogy.

Let me tell you in clear terms, since my analogy apparently went over your head. Smeagol thinks Gollum is real. Gollum isn't real. Gollum is a figment of Smeagol's imagination, but he doesn't see that.

Rob thinks God is real. God isn't real. God is a figment of Rob's imagination, but he doesn't see that.

The point was this--how can you tell it's not a figment of your imagination? You claimed that he was separate from you, and thus, real. Well, Smeagol claims the same about Gollum. How can Smeagol tell that Gollum isn't a figment of his imagination?

The rest of your claptrap is, well, pointless. Congrats on creating yet another sermon about how I'm going to suffer and about how I really do want to believe but can't bring myself to believe.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Rob, posted 09-07-2007 9:37 AM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
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ElOne
Junior Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 23
Joined: 09-05-2007


Message 84 of 147 (420343)
09-07-2007 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Vacate
09-07-2007 11:55 AM


Re: Aliens and the flood
As it stands there are 2 thoughts on the subject of creation. One being ID and the other being evolution. I just havent found one thing that puts ToE as a valid assumption. There is no explanation of how all of the matter [our Universe] got here. There is no explanation how inanimate matter achieved life. The fossil evidence disproved speciation over long periods of time; in fact it has been all but abandoned for a newer theory or concept called Punctuated Equilibria (PE). PE relies on some mystical process where fish gave birth to birds and dinosaurs gave birth to mammals. There are natural laws of reproduction that invalidate that theory, yet it persists. So far any other explanation has not withstood the test of time. The Bible on the other hand, gives an explanation of all of these, and as time goes on, it becomes more plausible. We know it is possible to travel in space. Some of the "unexplainable" things of the Bible are being explained by science. For instance, science wont acknowledge it but the structure of the DNA molecule indicates an intelligent design for easy manipulation and this would be more plausible for the birth of mammals and birds rather than saying "somehow" dinosaurs laid eggs which gave birth to mammals.
That is ludicrous. Science has been playing with this probability for decades; the result, when achieved, is a sterile offspring; which by the way always looks like at least a combination of the parents. Not going from scales to fur and a two chambered heart to a four chambered one. How can an animal that lays eggs for reproduction suddenly lay an egg that hatches an animal that gives live birth? Science wont even give a feasible explanation; because it is not what happened. ToE was proven false and so will PE. There are hints all over the Bible that when looked into, give it credibility. There are even cave drawings, numbering in the hundreds that show "beings" with what looks like space suits or helmets and some hieroglyphs show someone in what looks like a space ship.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Vacate, posted 09-07-2007 11:55 AM Vacate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-07-2007 3:00 PM ElOne has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16035
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 85 of 147 (420362)
09-07-2007 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by ElOne
09-07-2007 2:10 PM


Re: Aliens and the flood
As it stands there are 2 thoughts on the subject of creation. One being ID and the other being evolution. I just havent found one thing that puts ToE as a valid assumption.

Then I suggest that you learn some biology.

There is no explanation of how all of the matter [our Universe] got here. There is no explanation how inanimate matter achieved life. The fossil evidence disproved speciation over long periods of time; in fact it has been all but abandoned for a newer theory or concept called Punctuated Equilibria (PE). PE relies on some mystical process where fish gave birth to birds and dinosaurs gave birth to mammals.

Before you wrote this, why didn't you find out what Punctuated Evolution is? Rather than making up a lot of rubbish in yor head?

Some of the "unexplainable" things of the Bible are being explained by science. For instance, science wont acknowledge it ...

So science won't acknowledge what science has explained? Funny old science, eh?

but the structure of the DNA molecule indicates an intelligent design for easy manipulation and this would be more plausible for the birth of mammals and birds rather than saying "somehow" dinosaurs laid eggs which gave birth to mammals.
That is ludicrous.

It is ludicrous. To be precise, it's ludicrous nonsense which you made up in your head. It has nothing to do with evolution, as you would know if you had bothered to learn the first damn thing about evolution before shooting your mouth off about it in public.

Science has been playing with this probability for decades; the result, when achieved, is a sterile offspring; which by the way always looks like at least a combination of the parents.

This is so far removed from reality that I can't even figure out what it is you're distorting.

Please learn something about biology. Anything, it's all good.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 2:10 PM ElOne has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 5:21 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
ElOne
Junior Member (Idle past 3938 days)
Posts: 23
Joined: 09-05-2007


Message 86 of 147 (420395)
09-07-2007 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Dr Adequate
09-07-2007 3:00 PM


Re: Aliens and the flood
I did do research on PE. Since the fossil record did not show a slow steady change as ToE had proposed, but rather a very long period of "stasis", then a vast explosion of speciation, the original theory was scrapped for the new "concept". I understand PE quite well and see it is full of holes. In fact PE is an indication of the probability of ID (possibly even alien intervention when life on earth gets in trouble).

It is ludicrous. To be precise, it's ludicrous nonsense which you made up in your head. It has nothing to do with evolution, as you would know if you had bothered to learn the first damn thing about evolution before shooting your mouth off about it in public.

It has everything to do with how life "is" on this planet. Flip a chromosomal switch and you change something about the organism. "Instant evolution"

Edited by AdminPD, : Fixed quote box.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-07-2007 3:00 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-07-2007 5:56 PM ElOne has not yet responded
 Message 88 by Shtop, posted 09-07-2007 6:01 PM ElOne has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16035
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 87 of 147 (420398)
09-07-2007 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by ElOne
09-07-2007 5:21 PM


Re: Aliens and the flood
I did do research on PE. Since the fossil record did not show a slow steady change as ToE had proposed, but rather a very long period of "stasis", then a vast explosion of speciation, the original theory was scrapped for the new "concept". I understand PE quite well and see it is full of holes. In fact PE is an indication of the probability of ID (possibly even alien intervention when life on earth gets in trouble).

Er ... but this is rubbish from start to finish.

How did you research punctuated equilibrium? By pulling words at random out of a hat?

It has everything to do with how life "is" on this planet

No, dinosaurs laying eggs that gave birth to mammals has nothing to do with "how life "is" on this planet". That is not how evolution works.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
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Shtop
Junior Member (Idle past 221 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 07-19-2007


Message 88 of 147 (420401)
09-07-2007 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by ElOne
09-07-2007 5:21 PM


Re: Aliens and the flood
In fact PE is an indication of the probability of ID (possibly even alien intervention when life on earth gets in trouble).

Which brings us neatly back on topic.

Please explain how PE is an indication of alien intervention when life on earth gets in trouble. Don't forget to quote relevant Bible verses.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by ElOne, posted 09-07-2007 5:21 PM ElOne has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by ElOne, posted 09-11-2007 10:14 AM Shtop has not yet responded

    
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3744 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 89 of 147 (420441)
09-07-2007 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by kuresu
09-07-2007 12:12 PM


Kuresu:
Rob thinks God is real. God isn't real. God is a figment of Rob's imagination, but he doesn't see that.

The point was this--how can you tell it's not a figment of your imagination? You claimed that he was separate from you, and thus, real. Well, Smeagol claims the same about Gollum. How can Smeagol tell that Gollum isn't a figment of his imagination?

Because millions of others can see Him too. In fact, when I read the Bible, I see that people 6 thousand years ago saw Him and they can explain to me what it is I am seeing with language that captures Him.

It's not like I am the only one to become a fool. Maybe one of the last... but not the only one.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by kuresu, posted 09-07-2007 12:12 PM kuresu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by nator, posted 09-08-2007 6:53 AM Rob has responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 65 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 90 of 147 (420494)
09-08-2007 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Rob
09-07-2007 9:37 AM


Not that you haven't been told a zillion times before, rob, but most people who aren't already believers are unlikely to be affected by being preached at. In fact, it is incredibly irritating. It smacks of paternalistic arrogance, since it isn't as though we haven't heard the same thing from other people for most of our lives. What, do you think if we hear it from you, particularly, a hundred and fifty-seven times, it will eventually sink in?

When in a science forum as this one is, when one's opponent resorts to preaching, it pretty much signals that they have given up on rational discussion.

OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD

Edited by AdminPD, : Warning


This message is a reply to:
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