Good Bible Prophecies List

I understand that Buzsaw was refering to one prophecy, but made a list of point concerning that prophecy.

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Likelihood of fulfillment is the only issue Buzsaw was really addressing.

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I'll let PaulK defend his point. For my part, it seems Buzsaw was, or is, attempting to argue that fulfillment of this prophecy is so unlikely that it must be evidence of true foreknowledge on the part the utterer. My first response is that if you want to calculate probabilities that something will or will not succeed, you can always come up with astronomical odds against, especially after so much tims has past and so much information has been lost. Yet SOMETHING has to succeed. Some social structure will dominate. Really, what matters is the number of alternative structures vying for the dominant position. At the time christianity got its foothold, there weren't that many. The Jews had all but cut their own throats by hassling Rome. Judaism as a whole was coming apart. They'd lost the first temple and with it the ark of the covenant and hence the indwelling of God in the temple. Then the second temple went. There were splinter groups everywhere-- the pharicees and sagisees of the NT for example. Roman religion was a political game. There were several others quite similar to christianity, but christianity got lucky.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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I'll let PaulK defend his point. For my part, it seems Buzsaw was, or is, attempting to argue that fulfillment of this prophecy is so unlikely that it must be evidence of true foreknowledge on the part the utterer.

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Right. I agree. I even agreed that you answered his point, and you answered it well. I just thought that your answer to his main point got lost in your replies to his specific arguments for unlikeliness. That's the only reason I posted.

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I think you are misunderstanding my post.

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My point on probability of fulfilment is that it was not an issue for Jesus

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I did indeed misunderstand your point; completely missed it. Still, though, if I wasn't the only one who misunderstood, now it's clarified. Thanks.

HI Buzz,
To start with I really do not think this is actually a prophecy, but I will play along nonetheless.In Matthew 24:14 Jesus prophesied that his new little religion/gospel would eventually be preached worldwide. A few problems here:1. Firstly was it a new religion or a continuation of an old one?
2. Did Jesus say anything about creating a new religion?
3. When exactly was this allegedly uttered?
4. Who actually wrote this?
5. How can you be certain this is what Jesus said?
6. Does ‘worldwide’ in this context mean the entire Earth, or just the known world?
7. What was the mainstream religion in Palestine at the time?
8. Do you think that Christianity is not a cult?
9. Matthew 24:14 mentions nothing about a new religion.
10.This is actually a failed prophecy at this moment in time, which is clear if you read the text. Matthew 24:14 says:‘And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come’Since the end has not come, and never has looked like coming, then all nations cannot have heard the gospel, so this prophecy remains unfulfilled until Jesus comes back, don’t hold your breath. 1. Again this is hearsay, you have no independent witnesses to this execution, and certainly no eyewitness accounts.
2. This execution was actually a bigtime positive for this religion, when the entire foundation of Christianity is based on Jesus’ suffering, death and resurrection, how can his execution be a negative thing?
3. Do you understand Christianity? 1. Well as we have seen it hasn’t been fulfilled, so the first point is immaterial.
2. They may not have been wealthy themselves but they had wealthy supporters, Joseph of Arimathea for example.
3. Paul was highly educated. The author of John had to be higly educated, but then this author was not a disciple
4. Nicodemas and Joseph of Arimathea were both members of the Sanhedrin, how influential do you want? 1. Such as?
2. Why then did it spread?
3. Why is ‘cult’ italicised? This is pure fantasy. I issue you a challenge, name 5 disciples and give supporting evidence of:Who they were.
When they were executed
Where they were executed
How they were executed
Why they were executedNot just rumours, but actual evidence, you do know that no one knows for sure how Paul was killed?You see this was just a rumour to take away from the fact that some of the disciples stole Jesus' body from the tomb once they realised that he was just another failed messiah. The church fathers thought that if they could make up a story that all the disciples were killed rather than deny their Christ, then others would be convinced that Jesus actually did rise from the dead, after all who would die for a lie?The story that the author of Matthew makes up about placing the guard at the tomb, because the Jewish authorities were concerned that someone would steal the body and the whole fable would be taken as true, reeks of fiction. It is pretty clear that this writer had heard all the rumours about the disciples stealing the body and had to include in his text a way of dealing with it. This is related to Matthew 24:14 in which way? I’d like supporting evidence for this, why would the Romans persecute the Christians but yet tolerate every other form of religion. Wasn’t it the case that the persecution of Christians only happened in certain areas? Wasn’t it the case that the Romans would only act against a group if there had been some complaint about them? Wasn't it the case that many Chrstians lived in peace at this time? There is more to this than you would like to think. This is a bit wild.Jesus saying that the gospel would be preached in the whole world is not even remotely related to what you are implying here. He is simply meaning what any other person talking about the ‘whole world’ meant, the world that they know to exist. Remember that Jesus says it will be preached IN the whole world and not TO the whole world, can you prove that the gospel has been preached IN the whole world? I personally don’t think you can, but then again the burden of proof is on you.I wish you would read the Bible in context before giving us such a flawed example of ‘prophecy’. You might at least have picked one that looks as if it has even remotely been fulfilled.Any other ‘prophecies’ from you imagination?Brian.PS, If the Jews were so powerful, why was it IMPOSSIBLE for them to kill Jesus themselves, why did they need Pilate’s permission?

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I would be interested in hearing where this is/has been occurring. That kind of mass slaughter should be fairly obvious, don't you think? The worst massacres that happened in the 1990's was either inter-tribal (with both being nominally Christian) as in Rwanda and Burundi, or carried out by Christians, such as the "ethnic cleansing" by Christian Serbs on the primarily Moslem populations of Kosovo and Albania. Please reference where these "hundreds of thousands" of Christians were martyred.

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About two million in the Sudan alone in the last decade. The Muslims are dealing in slave trade bigtime exactly as the prophet Mohammed did in the 7th century. They raid villages, kill the men torture and enslave the rest of the family. Some Christian organizations have bought back thousands of slaves to free them, but that just feeds the fire. Many have even been crucified. When it's the Christians the UN (pro Muslim) looks the other way. But in places like Kosovo and the Baltics where the Muslims were being whipped, Nato and the UN came to the rescue.

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1. Firstly was it a new religion or a continuation of an old one?

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New religion, for sure.
1. Temple worship ended.
2. Animal sacrifice ended. {Jesus now the sacrificial lamb once and for all.
3. Priesthood ended. Jesus now our high priest and we go directly to God through him.
4. Letter of the law ended. The indwelling Holy Spirit now guides us via the Bible.
5. Eye for an eye etc retaliation ended. Now Jesus says, "do good to them who persecute you."These for a few. On and on we could go. No resemblence. Thus, the problem with the Jewish hiarchy.

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2. Did Jesus say anything about creating a new religion?

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Yah. He said the temple would be destroyed. All the new things he said and did are what bothered the Jews. It would be a new subject and thread to go into this because there's so much on it that he did and said.

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3. When exactly was this allegedly uttered?

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At the Mount of Olives (Known as the Olivet Discourse, shortly before his death. His desciples asked him when the end time would come and when he would return to earth after his resurrection. It's all recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 by the respective authors.

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5. How can you be certain this is what Jesus said?

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How can you be certain anybody in history said anything??

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6. Does ?worldwide? in this context mean the entire Earth, or just the known world?

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"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be presch in the whole world for a testimony to all nations: and then shall the end come." (Speaking of the end of the age, not the end of the world.Note, Jesus forsaw the end of the age (of Gentile national sovereignty and the beginning of his messianic rule for 1000 years).

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7. What was the mainstream religion in Palestine at the time?

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. Judiasm, via temple worship, of course.

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8. Do you think that Christianity is not a cult?

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No, certainly not, but had I been a Jewish devout at the time, I'd likely have considered it as such. The apostle Paul certainly did before his conversion. He was actually rounding up the sect members and delivering them up to the Sanhedrin to be threatened, persecuted and/or killed previous to his remarkable conversion.

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9. Matthew 24:14 mentions nothing about a new religion.

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That wasn't the purpose of this particular scripture. This and the parallel scriptures in Mark and Luke were prophetic scriptures.As for the end time, LOL, if you don't think it's near. All the prophecies, both Old and New Testaments have the Jews back in Jerusalem and surrounded by armies, the industrial revolution, the weather patterns and the whole shebang prophesied for our time. The war on terror WILL NOT END UNTIL IT ENDS WITH ARMAGEDDON. Hang onto your hat, friend Brian.

Buzsaw is absolutely right that basic human rights in Sudan are terribly abused, but wrong to imply that this a one-way abuse by Muslims of Christians.Amputation and the death penalty are common for convicted criminals, and death followed by crucifixion of the body is also relatively common. The country is wracked by an ongoing and bloody civil war which has indeed left millions dead over the last 20 years.The figures are horrific, but the atrocities have been committed by both sides. Slavery, rape, torture and mutilation have been used as weapons by the Islamic government forces and the Christian and Animist rebels. The Christian John Garang's Sudan People's Liberation Army was reported by the US State Department in its 1990 Sudan report to have forcibly conscripted over 10000 male minors and to have have forced men to work as labourers or porters. In 1994, Human Rights Watch, reported forced labour on SPLA farms. The splintering of the SPLA along ethnic lines has led to numerous factional wars within the south of the country and many of these have led to atrocities committed by Christian tribes and factions against Animists, especially in Eastern Equatoria.These are not problems of Muslims and Christians, they are the problems of an entire nation all but destroyed by continuing war, they are the problems of despair, and sadly, they are the problems of a nation that is too far away and too poor to matter more than in passing to those who have the wherewithal to help.I am not aware of any recent atrocities in the Baltics.

MP, can you document where the SPLA has done any of the following?
1. Crucified Muslims.
2. Bombed Muslim villages, killed the males and marched off the women and children of the Muslims to be their slaves and to trade them in the slave trade market.
3. Cut off the limbs of or otherwise tortured those who refuse to memorize protions of the Bible and to become Christians.The ongoing war is about Islam imposing it's religion on the whole of Sudan and making it another totalitarian Islamic fundamentalist nation. The Christians in the south are fighting for their lives and liberty. The oil in their southland is being taken over by foreigners and as in other nations it's a lot about why the West is unconcerned with helping them.

Btw, MP, can you document that the victums are killed before crucifixion?

In Revelation 14:6 we read of an angel "flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to the nations." On my house I have two dishes. One is dish network and the other a Dominion Sky Angel dish. The Sky Angel dish is for Christian programing. There is a satellite up there "flying in the midst of heaven" named "Sky Angel" owned by Christians which broadcasts over 30 channels to the nations of the world of Christian gospel and other like minded programs. Some are lousy, imo and some good, but nevertheless, imo, this is a modern day fulfillment of the Revelation prophecy.In Revelation 11 and in Revelation 18 we have two interesting prophecies which would be impossible to fulfill before the emergence of TV. In both cases all the nations of the world are able to see an event in one spot on the planet. In Revelation 11 it is the bodies of two witnesses or prophets lying in the streets of Jerusalem three days. In chapter 18, it is the city of "Mystery Babylon" which is destroyed by fire in "one hour." The kings of the earth are forseen to view it from afar. Again, impossible until TV.Also it is prophesied in the Bible that when Jesus appears in the clouds to return to earth, he will be seen by all.

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I even agreed that you answered his point, and you answered it well.

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Thank you. That is kind.It was clear that you agreed but I was happy for the chance to rephrase my argument. I wasn't happy with my earlier presentations, but I guess I never am.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Oh I see: you have a list of favourite atrocities: and evils which don't appear on your list can just be ignored. Nice.

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The Christians in the south are fighting for their lives and liberty.

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So you say. Sounds like you have been reading the propaganda of one side. You think Christians in the south have a right to enslave and cimmit atrocities against others?The war is not about Islam, or Christianity. It's about ethnic conflict, it's about power, and human greed - the factors which have driven war since time immemorial. One day it's Christians torturing and murdering and enslaving, wrapped up in a sham of religion; another it's Islam.To turn this into a religious issue is to play exactly the game that those who perpetrate such wars wish to play: to disguise their greed and hatred in distorted ideals and a repulsive parody of Godliness. And you know what? Christians are masters at it, and have been since the days of Constantine.

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Btw, MP, can you document that the victums are killed before crucifixion?

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I know of no reliably documented cases where they were not. Who knows? Both sides are behaving with a brutality I find unimaginable.Don't get me wrong, I find the actions of the northern Islamic government in Sudan repulsive in the extreme. But I find the actions of the so-called Christian militias in the south, especially to non-Christian communities equally repulsive. The slaughter and enslavement of non-Dinka Animists by the SLPA has been disgracefully overlooked by American evangelicals who present this as a one-sided conflict with Christian suffering as the main issue. Even when Christian's were in the government, they had nothing to learn from Muslims when it came to oppression, torture and genocide.

I'm going to be away for a week so any further discussion will have to wait.But here are some facts.
1) Jesus did not end Temple worship - the Romans did
2) Animal sacrifice went with the Temple
3) Jesus may have had replacing the priesthood in mind but there is nothing I am aware of to suggest that he wanted to remove it and not replace it. If you have evidence please produce it.
4) Isn't this directly contrary to the Gospels's reporting of Jesus words ? Matthew 5:17-18 clearly indicates that the Law will continue untill Heaven and Earth pass away.
5) This is hardly contrary to the law.And I find it absolutely amazing that you should laugh at the idea that we are not in the "End Times". Hal Lindsey wrote _The Late Great PLanet Earth_ in 1970. The Millerites were convinced that the end was nigh in the 19th Century. And so it goes on and on back to the original disciples who at least had assurances from Jesus that it would happen in their lifetime - that is what the Olivet Discourse says.There were Jews in Jerusalem, surrounded by armies at the time of the Crusades. The Crusaders killed many of them when the city fell.Weather patterns ? They have changed before - heard of the so-called "Little Ice Age" ?The Industrial Revolution started in the 18th Century.Looks like the End Times have lasted for 2000 years already.

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As for the end time, LOL, if you don't think it's near. All the prophecies, both Old and New Testaments have the Jews back in Jerusalem and surrounded by armies, the industrial revolution, the weather patterns and the whole shebang prophesied for our time. The war on terror WILL NOT END UNTIL IT ENDS WITH ARMAGEDDON. Hang onto your hat, friend Brian.

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Of course the end is coming... nobody wants it more badly than the Christians because if there is no such thing, they'd be global laughingstock. So I guess there is some kind of world-hating mentality within Christian teachings. But not of the ascetic Buddhist or Sufist ways; it somehow drove them to do whatever necessary to put an end to the world. Manufacturing mass destruction weaponry, funding extremists (exp. Osama), setting up puppets (exp. Saddam), picking fights with secular Europe and former enemy Russia, keeping Israel and Palestine in perpetual conflict? For each case the biblical fundamnetalists are behind it. Why? Because they want this damn world to end, so they can get to heaven and laugh at us who does not consider Jesus as Savior. And this need for a savior goes back to the doctrine of original sin, which is IMO the most absurd thing in Christianity.