Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 114 (8796 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 10-23-2017 10:16 PM
339 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Upcoming Birthdays: DrJones*, willietern
Post Volume:
Total: 821,118 Year: 25,724/21,208 Month: 1,351/2,338 Week: 108/364 Day: 59/49 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
789
10
1112Next
Author Topic:   Which Version of the Bible is the Word of God?
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13231
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 136 of 174 (499849)
02-21-2009 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Peg
02-21-2009 2:41 AM


RE: Which One
quote:

He is talking about the scrolls of the Hebrew scriptures located at the city where he lived, Jerusalem.

On what do you base this claim ? He seems to be talking about the Hewbrew scriptures in general, not any specific scrolls. And at the time of his death - and likely the time of writing - he was living in Rome.

I really think that you need to learn to read properly. This is hardly the first time you've had serious problems understanding that a book didn't say what you wanted it to say. It seeems to be a defect common to creationists.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 2:41 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 4:49 AM PaulK has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 2491 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 137 of 174 (499858)
02-21-2009 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by PaulK
02-21-2009 3:46 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:

He seems to be talking about the Hewbrew scriptures in general, not any specific scrolls.

what do you imagine the hebrew scriptures to be exactly?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 3:46 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 5:15 AM Peg has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13231
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 138 of 174 (499863)
02-21-2009 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Peg
02-21-2009 4:49 AM


RE: Which One
quote:

what do you imagine the hebrew scriptures to be exactly?

Do you think that all references to "the Bible" refer to a specific copy kept in the Vatican or somewhere ? If not, what makes you think that Josephus is referring to specific physical copies kept in a specific place when the quote never suggests any such thing ?

Also, what makes you think that he is writing about the past when the quote comes from an apologetic, not a history ? Why wouldn't he be writing about his present time ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 4:49 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 5:26 AM PaulK has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 2491 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 139 of 174 (499864)
02-21-2009 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by PaulK
02-21-2009 5:15 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:

what makes you think that Josephus is referring to specific physical copies kept in a specific place when the quote never suggests any such thing ?

what makes you skeptical that the Jews kept their scriptures at the temple in Jerusalem?

Are you also skeptical that the synagogues in other cities had the hebrew scriptures located there?

Are you skeptical that the jewish religious system kept any copies of hebrew scriptures anywhere?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 5:15 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 5:43 AM Peg has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13231
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 140 of 174 (499867)
02-21-2009 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Peg
02-21-2009 5:26 AM


RE: Which One
quote:

what makes you skeptical that the Jews kept their scriptures at the temple in Jerusalem?

The fact that it was a burnt-out ruin. As I keep saying.

quote:

Are you also skeptical that the synagogues in other cities had the hebrew scriptures located there?

I've already said that they had copies. Try to follow the conversation. (i.e. remember the context).

quote:

Are you skeptical that the jewish religious system kept any copies of hebrew scriptures anywhere?

Obviously not. Are you ? If not, tell me why you think that Josephus must have been talking about specific copies kept at the Temple.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 5:26 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 5:47 AM PaulK has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 2491 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 141 of 174 (499868)
02-21-2009 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by PaulK
02-21-2009 5:43 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:

The fact that it was a burnt-out ruin. As I keep saying.

the temple stood for many centuries before its final destruction by the romans. What was in the temple before 70CE? Are you saying that it did not hold any scriptures in it before its destruction in 70CE.?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 5:43 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 6:03 AM Peg has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13231
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 142 of 174 (499871)
02-21-2009 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Peg
02-21-2009 5:47 AM


RE: Which One
quote:

the temple stood for many centuries before its final destruction by the romans. What was in the temple before 70CE? Are you saying that it did not hold any scriptures in it before its destruction in 70CE.?

No, I'm disagreeing with your claim that Josephus writing c100CE (your date) must have been talking about specific copies of the Jewish scriptures held at the Temple.

Why exactly are you having such difficulty understanding that ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 5:47 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 6:43 AM PaulK has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 2491 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 143 of 174 (499874)
02-21-2009 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by PaulK
02-21-2009 6:03 AM


RE: Which One
first please explain why the temple would not have housed copies of the hebrew scriptures

you already agree that other synagogues would have, but why is it unlikley that the temple would have housed them?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 6:03 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 6:48 AM Peg has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13231
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 144 of 174 (499875)
02-21-2009 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Peg
02-21-2009 6:43 AM


RE: Which One
quote:

first please explain why the temple would not have housed copies of the hebrew scriptures

I keep telling you why. Because it was a burnt-out ruin.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Peg, posted 02-21-2009 6:43 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Peg, posted 02-22-2009 12:43 AM PaulK has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 2491 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 145 of 174 (500018)
02-22-2009 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by PaulK
02-21-2009 6:48 AM


RE: Which One
PaulK writes:

I keep telling you why. Because it was a burnt-out ruin.

it was perfectly in tact up until 70CE


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 02-21-2009 6:48 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2009 3:27 AM Peg has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13231
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 146 of 174 (500022)
02-22-2009 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Peg
02-22-2009 12:43 AM


RE: Which One
quote:

it was perfectly in tact up until 70CE

And Josephus was writing about the situation c100CE (your date).

So the Temple was a burnt-out ruin at the time he wrote.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Peg, posted 02-22-2009 12:43 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Peg, posted 02-22-2009 3:30 AM PaulK has responded

    
Peg
Member (Idle past 2491 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 147 of 174 (500023)
02-22-2009 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by PaulK
02-22-2009 3:27 AM


RE: Which One
he wrote many writings about the history of the jews

historians, as i said earlier, write 'history'

he wrote history

BTW, Josephus's 'day' spanned his whole lifetime...not just the later years of his life when he wrote most of his writings.

Edited by Peg, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2009 3:27 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by PaulK, posted 02-22-2009 7:12 AM Peg has not yet responded
 Message 149 by Kapyong, posted 02-22-2009 4:47 PM Peg has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 13231
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 148 of 174 (500026)
02-22-2009 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Peg
02-22-2009 3:30 AM


RE: Which One
quote:

he wrote many writings about the history of the jews

historians, as i said earlier, write 'history'


Contra Apion is an apologetic work rather than a history.

quote:

BTW, Josephus's 'day' spanned his whole lifetime...not just the later years of his life when he wrote most of his writings.

Which does not in any way change the date when Contra Apion was written, nor change the fact that the passage in question is about the situation as it was then - not as it wasmore then twenty years earlier.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Peg, posted 02-22-2009 3:30 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 1004 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 149 of 174 (500072)
02-22-2009 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Peg
02-22-2009 3:30 AM


RE: Which One
Gday Peg,

Peg writes:

historians, as i said earlier, write 'history'
he wrote history

So you believe everything Josephus wrote, do you?

Josephus wrote that Vespasian healed a blind man.
Do you believe that 'history' ?

Josephus wrote that a cow gave birth to a lamb.
Do you believe that 'history' ?

Kapyong


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Peg, posted 02-22-2009 3:30 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
Black
Member (Idle past 2746 days)
Posts: 77
Joined: 11-28-2008


Message 150 of 174 (500176)
02-23-2009 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by anglagard
01-10-2009 6:03 AM


BUMP

Edited by Black, : edit

Edited by Black, : edit


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by anglagard, posted 01-10-2009 6:03 AM anglagard has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Brian, posted 02-24-2009 8:07 AM Black has responded

  
Prev1
...
789
10
1112Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017