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Author Topic:   Inerrancy of the Bible 2
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 16 of 118 (179474)
01-21-2005 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
01-21-2005 8:35 AM


sidelined,
I didn't realize this was a prophecy(including protecting Jerusalem), but your all absolutely right. The earth will literally be shaken to the core when this prophecy is finally fullfilled. The tsunami just as of late caused the earth to go back 3 millions of a second, when kjv Isaiah 24:20 & kjv Revelation 16:20 occurs the sundial of the earth will be set back a total of 10 degree's. I appreciate you all bringing this to my attention.
kjv Isa 38:4 Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
kjv Isa 38:5 Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.
kjv Isa 38:6 And I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria: and I will defend this city.
kjv Isa 38:7 And this shall be a sign unto thee from the LORD, that the LORD will do this thing that he hath spoken;
kjv Isa 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
kjv Isa 38:9 The writing of Hezekiah king of Judah, when he had been sick, and was recovered of his sickness:

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Replies to this message:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 17 of 118 (179484)
01-21-2005 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by CK
01-21-2005 6:38 PM


Charles Knight, You all really don't understand God chose Hovind to proclaim a message, that God was the creator. You all simply don't like the message, so you attack the messenger. Kent we hear the message. God is Lord, he did it, we can not prove microevolution answers origin. Lets all rise & Give God the Glory. Lets all rise, and Kent will likely say Amen.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 20 of 118 (179493)
01-21-2005 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by sidelined
01-21-2005 10:27 PM


sidelined,
kjv Isa 38:8 Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
Reading the KJV it says it will go backward, no mention of going forward. I appreciate you all for bringing to light that an event such as this would likely cause every island to fled away, and the mountains were not found. (kjv Revelation 16:20)
kjv Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
kjv Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 22 of 118 (179506)
01-21-2005 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by sidelined
01-21-2005 11:32 PM


sidelined,
kjv Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
It actually does say it will rock to and fro, so appears it will go back 10 degrees and then forward 10 degree's. I'm leaning it will happen before the generation that was born when Israel took control of Jerusalem in 1967(Jack Van Impe's belief). However some feel it will happen when the generation born in 1947 before this generation passes away? I see this Great Day of the Lord possibly happening in your lifetime. No man knows the hour, but Israel which within this prophecy the Lord says he will protect. Its also prophecied to happen within the generation living in respect to Israel. God said he will do it(only God knows the hour), and well prophecy never fails.
This message has been edited by Tom, 01-21-2005 23:48 AM

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 26 of 118 (179545)
01-22-2005 2:33 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by sidelined
01-21-2005 11:56 PM


sidelined, God can stop the earth without shaking the earth apart kjv Joshua 10:13, and he could of caused it to spin backwards then forward(however in Isaiahs day it was likely a partial eclipse of the sun)shadow going backward and forward. I like the big earthquake event in the future because its in agreement with you in respect to the shaking of the earth to the core(Gods wrath). I agree God also turned the shadow forward meaning he was going to kill Hezekiah but after Hezekiah prayers he moved it backward giving Hezekiah back his fifteen years, delaying and protecting Hezekiah from the Assyrians in his extended time. Its really a quite story how a righteous ruler delayed the judgment of God during his reign.
George W. Bush is a righteous leader, and lets pray that God will protect America as he protected Hezekiah from his enemies.
We all know though that there will be a great earthquake prophecy and that the earth will rock to and fro, and who will be able to stand it the day of the wrath of the Lord. The earth will be so shaken that this is when the earth could actually spin backwards and forward 10 degrees when the earth falls to rise no more (mountains flattened, Islands no more).
This message has been edited by Tom, 01-22-2005 02:54 AM

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 43 of 118 (179675)
01-22-2005 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by sidelined
01-22-2005 10:11 AM


sidelined, When I slow my car I apply the brakes, when I speed up I apply the gas. God doesn't need to suddenly stop the earth, to turn the dial back 10 degree's and then to speed it up 10 degree's.
I see it more as prophecy and you have to ask the question if one little earthquake slowed the earth 3 millionths of a second, how much would an earthquake that will cause the earth to wobble in orbit be able to slow the rotation of the earth.
P.S. kjv Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pliades, or loose the bands of Orion?

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 44 of 118 (179698)
01-22-2005 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by arachnophilia
01-22-2005 3:32 AM


Arachnophilia, Go ask Jerry Falwell if God doesn't answer prayer. The prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Jerry said when Clinton gave up the reigns of command to GWB, not even a hurricane would of prevented him from witnessing the changing of the guard. The Prophecy in question appears to be talking about the judgment of God being delayed becaue the ruler was righteous.
P.S. Don't you remember some dude was swallowed by a whale, because he didn't want to witness to the people of Ninevah. Yet the people of Ninevah repented and escaped a judgment of God. It says Nations are judged by God and how just one man can turn it all around. I realize were in the last days, but one can not but be amazed that God has chosen GWB to be our president. Do you really think Jerry Falwell does not believe in answered prayer. I guess if we Christians get raptured before the tribulation, GWB will be out of here too.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 48 of 118 (179715)
01-22-2005 4:54 PM


I've got things to do, taking a sabbatical. I did appreciate how you all helped me understand how inerrant the bible actually is, by allowing me to spin off your spin. Its an interesting way to learn, spinning off spin. Part of me wants to continue spinning against your spin, but that only supporting your need to spin. Its time for me to spin on out of here.
Tom

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 95 of 118 (180889)
01-26-2005 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
01-26-2005 9:00 AM


God is saying, "Job, canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades? Can you capture Pleiades, springtime, and keep it all the time? You're going to have to have some wintertime too, or you won't enjoy the springtime." God says, "Can you loose the bands of Orion? Can you stop Orion from coming? Can you thwart the chill of winter? You can't stay in springtime always.
Pleiades and Orion

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 99 of 118 (180947)
01-26-2005 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Coragyps
01-26-2005 5:47 PM


Coragyps, I find it interesting how the baptist pastor said: Orion has never come without the Pleiades being around the corner.
The Ordinances of Heaven Established on the Earth.
http://bibletools.org/...fuseaction/Def.show/RTD/ISBE/ID/911
The astronomical antithesis between Mazzaroth, the constellations of the zodiac ("led forth" each "in its season"), and 'Ayish, "the Bear with her train" ("guided" in its unceasing revolution round the pole), is so complete and astronomically appropriate, that there is reason to expect an antithesis as clear and as astronomically significant between the two clauses of the preceding verse. But the rendering of the Revised Version (British and American) does not afford anything of the kind: "Canst thou bind the cluster of the Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?" is simply equivalent to the question as to whether Job could fix these stars in their places in the sky; and for an inquiry so perfectly general, one constellation would be no more appropriate than another. The true rendering must certainly bring out some difference or at least distinction between the two constellations or the use that was made of them.
And in the third passage in which Kimah and Kecil are mentioned together an important distinction is hinted at. The order in Amos 5:8 suggests that the Pleiades corresponded in some way to daybreak, Orion to nightfall: "That maketh the Pleiades and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night." Sunrise turns "the shadow of death into the morning," and in the progress of the seasons the analogous change on the higher scale is effected when Nature revives from the death of winter in the morning of the year, that is to say, at the return of spring. And at the time of the origin of the constellations the Pleiades were the harbingers of this change at their "cosmical" rising, that is to say, when they rose with the sun at daybreak they brought back the "delights" of springtime.
Similarly sunset makes "the day dark with night," and in the progress of the seasons the analogous change on the higher scale is effected when the long nights and short days of winter set in the evening of the year, and all nature is bound as by iron bands, in cold and frost. And at the time of the origin of the constellations, the "acronychal" rising of Orion, i.e. its rising at nightfall, was the harbinger of this change; the rigor of winter formed "the bands of Orion."
These regular changes in the appearings and positions of the constellations constitute the ordinances of the heavens, ordinances which Job could neither alter for the worse by holding back the delights of springtime, or for the better by breaking the bonds of winter cold. But these ordinances were not confined in their effects to the heavens; their dominion was established on the earth, which answered by the revival of vegetation when the Pleiades, then nearly in conjunction with the sun, appeared for a short time before sunrise; and by the return of the constraints of cold and frost when Orion, in opposition to the sun, rode the sky the whole night long.
The completeness and beauty of the imagery will now be apparent.
The Pleiades stood for the East, since by their rising just before daybreak, they heralded the morning of the year and the "delights" of springtime.
Orion stood for the West, since his appearing just after nightfall heralded the evening of the year, and the bands of winter cold.
Mazzaroth, the twelve constellations of the zodiac, the "chambers of the south," each "led forth" from the underworld in its own "season," stood for the South.
And the "Bear with her train," "guided" in their unceasing course round the pole, stood for the circumpolar constellations in the North.
And the movements of them all in a perfect obedience to the law of God were the ordinances of heaven; whilst the dominion of them was seen to be established upon the earth in the constant succession of the seasons there in unfailing answer to the changes in the stars above.
These three verses give us a vivid picture of the work of primitive astronomy. The science was then in an early stage of development, but it was a real science, a science of observation, thoroughly sound so far as it had progressed, and showing high intelligence on the part of those who pursued it. We now know that the movement of "the Bear with her train," that is, the apparent rotation of the heavens round the pole, is due to the real rotation of the earth upon its axis; that the bringing out of "the Mazzaroth in their season," apparently due to the revolution of the sun round the earth, is due to the real revolution of the earth round the sun. But this knowledge which has enabled us to see where the actual movements lie has not brought us any nearer penetrating the mystery of those movements. What is the ultimate cause of the rotation of this vast globe, we know no more than the ancients knew what caused the heavens to rotate; what causes it to fly through space 18 miles in every second of time, we know no more than the ancients knew why the sun appeared to move among the stars. To us, as to them, it is the power of God, and the will of God.

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5619 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 107 of 118 (180986)
01-26-2005 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by lfen
01-26-2005 10:28 PM


lfen, God takes the credit for the binding of the Pleiades, and the loosing of Orion. The lights in the firmament are to divide day and night, for signs, seasons, days, months, and years. kjv genesis 1:14.
Why did the writer of Job 4,000 years ago pen those words, despite having no idea what they referred to? "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?"
Account Suspended
ORION & PLEIADES - AN IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE
Here is an interesting difference! The Orion open star cluster is loose and disintegrating because the gravity of the cluster is not enough to bind the group together. In contrast, the Pleiades cluster stars are gravitationally bound, and will survive a billion years.
DID YOU KNOW that we were told this 4000 years ago?
Where? What great astronomer of old knew this?
. . . Only one whom it could have been - "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?" ...These words in the Bible (Job 38:31) were written about 4000 years ago, but no-one then knew what they meant. It is only recently that we realised the Pleiades is gravitationally bound, but Orion's stars are flying apart, the cords of gravity being too loose to restrain them.
Now, how did the writer of Job know that 4,000 years ago? This is another example of how we can trust the Bible, which is full of fulfilled prophecies. We can recognise God's awesome creative power. He is never wrong.
This message has been edited by Tom, 01-26-2005 23:11 AM

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