The Existence of Jesus Christ

Speaking for myself, I found that once I encountered the Spirit of the living God, (or what I believed to be that) I found that just as iron sharpens iron, my own self and personality traits were often seen in a comparative or contrasting nature with the nature of Christ.This gave(gives) me the opportunity to decide on changes and adjustments in my attitudes, feelings, and beliefs. My self is my self...it cannot be ignored any more than it can be mastered by trying. It can be understood much better, and thus kept in check, by knowing the nature and denying nothing.Change is not about trying through self effort. Change is about trusting the Spirit to retrain, refresh, and renew the inner man.

I must admit that much of my knowledge of this Spirit comes from what I have been taught. I will say, however, that within the context of Christian teaching, I have found much that corroborates my preconceptions. I don't just listen to one or two sources. I compare and contrast the teachings of many. Within this context, I find that
some christian teachers who are trustworthy (by my judgement) also correlate with each other.Unless I were to question the entire validity of the foundations and fundamentals of Christian belief, I would have no reason to not trust my learning sources.I believe, by contrast, that you and/or some others here at EvC DO question the validity of Christian belief in general. This is well and good, but it places us as diametric opposites. Many trust human wisdom and the sources that disprove Biblical beliefs. While the consensus has clout, it is far from a universal fact. There are many respected names/sources who validate and uphold Biblical source beliefs as a valid and secure foundation.I am not sure why there are such controversial dichotomies.I will not dismiss either side as ignorant.as far as other cultures and belief systems go, I would think that many have in fact encountered Christ...though perhaps by another name. Were it possible to quantify the qualities of their subjective experience, I believe that we would be able to objectify One Spirit.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-13-2005 12:57 PM

Well would that not explain why you are now an atheist? You have concluded that all belief is subjective. My experience was shaped largely through the times that I was changed. Perhaps your experience with christianity was concluded to have been entirely subjective (arising totally internally) by you. Once you believed that the Bible was conceived by man, you had no reason to entertain the idea that God could impart His Spirit. I am not as trusting in regards to human wisdom as are you. Yes, but I trust my belief. I do not question every little (or big) conclusion that I arrive at. I trust the Bible because it makes sense. For instance, this verse Either you believe the fable or you do not. I can tell the difference between one cult or one belief that is rigid and illogical vs these people . So, I will admit that I want to believe that my belief is valid. I think that this is a key reason why some stay with the faith and some do not. Did you WANT to question your belief?
It is because of my respect for you and others here at EvC that I even question my belief at all. It would be a virtual impossibility for me to deny that Christ is real, however. I am not looking to replace Him with human wisdom at this point.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-14-2005 02:14 PMThis message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-14-2005 02:15 PM

And this shows that we are not evolving morally and also that the good news of Jesus Christ is the only cure for the human "condition".I will say that many "christians" have themselves been very poor advertisments for Christ. I know that I am an idiot at times...if I were God, I would have "fired" me. I could argue with Him and blame myself on the human "condition", but He would surely remind me that He has provided a way out.

Logically, I don't. I have known a few "wild donkeys" in my day, however...so it is a product of the human condition. I will say that personally, I don't see America as the "good guys" and the Islam as the "bad guys." There is bad in both cultures. Jersus had elaborated that there were really only two commandments which covered all of them.
It all boils down to surrender to the Holy Spirit.Can we dare say that some fundamentalists (in any country) think that they are obeying the Holy Spirit and instead have made a god within their own minds...thus captives of the "other spirit"?I would say so...and this certainly includes many American fundies.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-14-2005 03:00 PM

I am beginning to agree with Jar more and more about how many atheists will get to heaven before the fundies....God works in mysterious ways! Many have been "saved" who never saw a Bible!

Would that be considered a Capital offense?

What does it mean to walk with Him?What facts do we need to convince us? Any?If no facts were found, would we conclude that Jesus is just another dead guy?What I am trying to say is that people do not need to search the scriptures any more than they need to dig up bones or "shrouds" in order to have the faith necessary for everyday life. They can find the spark within them subjectively without needing objective proof.If the spark becomes a fire, people will see the evidence lived through the life of the individual. No archeological/historical/literary evidence will be needed.

To me, this is like taking a class and then dropping it when it becomes too demanding. why not just do the best we can? What I mean't was that people will not find answers merely by reading the scriptures if they do not act upon the wisdom.Besides...there was a time when there were no Bibles...did people have to run find a scroll or a tablet before God spoke to them?