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Author | Topic: For Wolf - Prophecy, Coincidence, or Made Up? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rahvin Member Posts: 4042 Joined: Member Rating: 8.0 |
The last "meaningful reply" (and I use the terms loosely) that you have made in this, your own thread, was 2 pages and nearly 24 hours ago. Meanwhile, you have been posting in other threads whuile seeming to ignore your own. It looks to us, Tal, like you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument and are simply retreating.
Either post a meaningful rebuttal for the arguments against you, or conceed so that we can all move on. B Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
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AdminAsgara Administrator (Idle past 2328 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
Well, considering that the majority of your posts on this thread have been you telling everyone that they weren't Wolf and you weren't going to respond to them or telling others that you weren't going to respond now just because they asked...
It all sounded rather childish to me. Why don't you tell us if you are truly planning on answering any of the replies and maybe give us a time frame. Everyone here can respect that time can be an issue but giving childish responses here al the while replying on other threads doesn't show that time is YOUR issue. AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
General discussion of moderation procedures Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Introducing the new "Boot Camp" forum Other useful links: Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting
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Brian Member (Idle past 4984 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I am preparing myself for a good old Gish Gallop!
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Tal Member (Idle past 5702 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
I'll post on what threads I choose when I choose to do it.
To answer the Admin's question, yes, I will bring out points 1-4 over the next weekish. But if I don't get to it immediately, don't have a cow, I'm catching deserters during the day and with my family at night. I am also waiting on the transcripts from my church service to be released. Poking and prodding me seems rather childish imo. Charles Knight has no patience... "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"--Ann Coulter
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Example 5 is easy. It's simply more quotemining from Psalm 69 which we have already seen is not prophecy.
Number six is Pslam 49. Let's take a look at it and see what we find.
1 Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble. 2 The LORD will protect him and preserve his life;he will bless him in the land and not surrender him to the desire of his foes. 3 The LORD will sustain him on his sickbedand restore him from his bed of illness. 4 I said, "O LORD, have mercy on me;heal me, for I have sinned against you." 5 My enemies say of me in malice,"When will he die and his name perish?" 6 Whenever one comes to see me,he speaks falsely, while his heart gathers slander; then he goes out and spreads it abroad. 7 All my enemies whisper together against me;they imagine the worst for me, saying, 8 "A vile disease has beset him;he will never get up from the place where he lies." 9 Even my close friend, whom I trusted,he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me. 10 But you, O LORD, have mercy on me;raise me up, that I may repay them. 11 I know that you are pleased with me,for my enemy does not triumph over me. 12 In my integrity you uphold meand set me in your presence forever. 13 Praise be to the LORD, the God of Israel,from everlasting to everlasting. Amen and Amen. WOW!. More out of context quotemining. Surprise. When you read the whole Psalm it's not prophecy but simply a general song of praise and lament. The very two first verses;
1 Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble. 2 The LORD will protect him and preserve his life;he will bless him in the land and not surrender him to the desire of his foes. show that it cannot be attached to Jesus whose life was not preserved and who was surrendered to his foes and was not delivered in time of trouble. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
We don't need to know what your Pastor thinks, if he thought the items you included in the OP were prophecy he was wrong.
We don't need yet more cut&paste jobs from some sermon transcript, we get enough of that from you already. In your OP you listed five factors,
1. Authorship 2. Manuscripts 3. History 4. Archeology 5. Prophecy Before we go on to 1-4, how about your dealing with the one where you provided some alleged evidence. Is there any prophecy you can defend? The first six have been shown to be wrong, is it necessary to go through the whole list? Let's not play run away and jump to 1-4 without first settling number 5. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tal Member (Idle past 5702 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
They aren't wrong. You see them as coincidence. What's the problem?
In the beginning I told you it could be looked at in 3 basic ways. You fall into one of those categories, I fall into another. I don't have to defend any of them. Charles Knight has no patience... "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"--Ann Coulter
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Brian Member (Idle past 4984 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
He really doesn't see them as coincidence. Read his replies again.
Brian.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I don't have to defend any of them. Yes you do. That is why we're in the Science Forum, this is not the Coffee House. Your assertions that they are prophecy has been challenged and supporting material provided. It's now up to you to either supprot the assertion or retract them.
They aren't wrong. You see them as coincidence. What's the problem? No, it did not say they were coincidences. I said they were deliberate QuoteMining, taken out of context and used to support some other conclusion than could be supported if they were taken within context. That is not coincidence. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4042 Joined: Member Rating: 8.0 |
In the beginning I told you it could be looked at in 3 basic ways. You fall into one of those categories, I fall into another. I don't have to defend any of them. "It's my OPINION, so you can't say I'm wrong!" You know, my then-13 year old stepdaughter used that one. As Jar said, you DO have to defend your position. Especially since he has provided pretty convincing evidence that you are flat wrong. You can have the "opinion" that the sky is green with yellow polkadots and that the moon is made of cheese, but you would still be wrong. Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Here Tal's source claims again that the prophecy is about Jesus. He lists two verses from Zachariah
The first one does not mention anything about betrayal, and the second one does not mention buying anything. Again, let's look at Zachariah 11 in full.
Zechariah 11 1 Open your doors, O Lebanon,so that fire may devour your cedars! 2 Wail, O pine tree, for the cedar has fallen;the stately trees are ruined! Wail, oaks of Bashan; the dense forest has been cut down! 3 Listen to the wail of the shepherds;their rich pastures are destroyed! Listen to the roar of the lions; the lush thicket of the Jordan is ruined! Two Shepherds 4 This is what the LORD my God says: "Pasture the flock marked for slaughter. 5 Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, 'Praise the LORD, I am rich!' Their own shepherds do not spare them. 6 For I will no longer have pity on the people of the land," declares the LORD. "I will hand everyone over to his neighbor and his king. They will oppress the land, and I will not rescue them from their hands." 7 So I pastured the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I pastured the flock. 8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them 9 and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh." 10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the afflicted of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD. 12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter. 14 Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. 15 Then the LORD said to me, "Take again the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16 For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hoofs. 17 "Woe to the worthless shepherd,who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! May his arm be completely withered, his right eye totally blinded!" Reading the whole Chapter we can see that it is definitely not prophecy of Jesus unless Jesus is a despot out to kill the weak and children. Anyone who uses Zachariah 11 as a prophecy of Jesus must also explain verse 16, which says:
16 For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hoofs. That is certainly not someone who would say "Suffer the little children to come unto me", who healed the sick, made the lame whole and fed the multitudes. Instead, Zachariah 11 is a comment and condemnation on the breakup of the two kingdoms. So looking at the first eight examples of the cut&paste OP we find that not one of the original quotations is a valid prophecy. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tal Member (Idle past 5702 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
So looking at the first eight examples of the cut&paste OP we find that not one of the original quotations is a valid prophecy. In your opinion. WWXD? What would Xenu do? "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"--Ann Coulter
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CK Member (Idle past 4153 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
A powerful rebuttal I'm sure we would all agree - glad you stepped down from Mount Olympus to give us those profound words.
Could you provide us us mere mortals with a bit more detail how Jar's critique of your OP is wrong?
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Tal Member (Idle past 5702 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
Rahvin, did I not start out the OP saying there were 3 different ways you could look at the info? Look at the title! You can either take this as prophecy, coincidence, or made up. I never inferred with the title that this WAS absolute prophecy and there's noway you can look at it as anything but.
If I say you can look at this 1 of 3 ways, and you pick way 2, what am I defending? WWXD? What would Xenu do? "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"--Ann Coulter
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Tal Member (Idle past 5702 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
Could you provide us us mere mortals with a bit more detail how Jar's critique of your OP is wrong?
It isn't wrong. See message 89. WWXD? What would Xenu do? "Why not go to war just for oil? We need oil. What do Hollywood celebrities imagine fuels their private jets? How do they think their cocaine is delivered to them?"--Ann Coulter
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