Re: Substantiating The Validity Of Bible Prophecy

Hi Buzz,have you got any kind of timescales for these prophecies ?

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

What is with you Americans (fundies especially) and the UN being the bogeyman?In what way has the UN ever had the sort of power or influence to do anything like you're talking about?What role has it played in:

• The recent rise of China
• The decline and eventual complete collapse of the Soviet Union
• The recent rise of India
• The rise of the 'Asian Tiger' economies
• The transformation of the Ireland from a relatively poor agriculture-based economy to a thriving modern one
• India and Pakistan becoming nuclear powers
• The collapse of Yugoslavia and the subsequent ethnic bloodbaths
• The formation and enlargement of the EEC
• The EEC changing into the EU
• The list goes on...

The changes in the world that have happened since WWII have happened because of the actions of countries, alliances of countries, political movements and companies - not at the behest of the UN.By and large all the UN actually does is help try and pick up the pieces after a human-caused or natural disaster. It has no military or police force of its own, no economic power besides its aid and development related budgets (which are admitedly large but are tiny in comparison to the budgets of significant countries) and, in truth, precious little influence.Edited by MangyTiger, : Changed "your" to "you're"

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Oops! Wrong Planet

A UN resolution to invade Jerusalem?You cannot be serious!!!So when do you predict that the US will lose its veto power in the UN Security Council?Or do you predict that your country will elect a President who will not oppose military action against Israel? Are you thinking a Catholic (maybe Hispanic given the demographic changes in the US) President will revert to the historic Catholic anti-semitism?

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Oops! Wrong Planet

Remember we need the Euphrates to dry up.Maybe Buzz has become a Muslim and forgot to tell us:

quote:

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"The Hour will not come to pass before the river Euphrates dries up to unveil the mountain of gold, for which people will fight. Ninety-nine out of one hundred will die [in the fighting], and every man among them will say: 'Perhaps I may be the only one to remain alive'." ” Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim.

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Edited by CK, : No reason given.

Revalations is one of the two books of the Bible I've read. I was bored in hospital and since it gets mentioned so much in horror films I figured I'd give it a read.My reaction after reading it was the author was either the author had some serious mental health problems or was using some major drugs - or both!If I ever get the time I must read up on the historical political aspect of it - which is probably more intersting than the looney prophecy aspect

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Oops! Wrong Planet

Hi, Buz. I have just a general information query.My dim recollection from Bible class is that Jesus said "no man knows" when he is returning.How does that fit in with Christians predicting when he will return?

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God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01 Save lives! Click here!
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Jesus goes a bit further than that -

quote:

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"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." Mark 13:32

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Leaving aside the normal nonsense of the trinity, it means that clearly that knowledge was only for god. Therefore anyone christian who claims they know the date must be wrong.

Very likely both. It seems likely he was a political broadsider, and opinions vary about whether he is talking about Nero or Domitian but he is certainly talking about some contemporary goings on sometime around 70AD to around 100AD.One interesting thing is that the Gospel of John (not the same author) seems to contain a fully realized eschatology that contradicts the eschatology found in Revelations. There are two ways to get around this conudrum, you can as so many of the End-Timers do fall back on the ever handy "not fully-realized" eschatology, which is a great out. It allows the end-timers to always say "But wait, there is more." I get the feeling personally when I hear most eschatologists speak that they are selling Ginsu Knives on some info-mercial.The second is to look at Revelations in the light of either the Nero (most likely IMHO) or Domitian reign. If you read Revelations as a political broadside written by an exiled politico, one with a limited knowledge of Greek unlike the authors of either the Gospel of John or the Epistles of John, and likely a relatively parochial outlook on events, it seems to make sense.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

ermm...actually, Jesus predicted his return within the generation of his disciples, and expected them to be present for his return (Matt 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32).which kind of explains why he was a bit disappointed when he realised he was well and truly dying ("My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?")

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Thanks, CK.I thought it was something like that. It would seem that a close study of scripture--and a few thousand years of ideological overlay--leads some to think otherwise.

Nobody will know the exact time, but we are also told that the general time frame will be recognized by Christians:1 Th 5:1-6 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

Of course Thessalonians is simply pointing out that we should live the Christian life, trying to do what is right and not do what is wrong and says nothing about Christians recognizing even the season.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I guess, were I a Christian, that I'd take Christ's words over somebody else's. Jesus seemed to make it clear that no one but God would have a clue. It's funny how literalists find their way to an interpretation that directly contradicts their savior.Seems to me that somebody else saying you don't need a weatherman to see which way the wind blows should hardly weigh heavier than Jesus' flat-out statement--at least, it would seem that way if I were a Christian, of course.

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God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01 Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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I know it's pointless to mention it, but Paul was personally commissioned by Christ and took his marching orders direct from Him.

Whatever you say, Faith. You're the Christian.But I don't suppose Jesus made him perfect when he handed him those orders; Jesus was supposed to be perfect. So I'd still take Jesus' word over Paul's.

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God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
--Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01 Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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