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Author Topic:   Re: Substantiating The Validity Of Bible Prophecy
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 46 of 119 (342647)
08-23-2006 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
08-22-2006 11:25 PM


Re: when will we know ?
quote:
There's important things yet to emerge such as the full implementation of moneyless global monetary completion as prophesied in Revelation 13
Revelation 13 doesn't mention the abandonment of money.
"Biblical" prophecy often seems to have little basis in the Bible. Perhaps it is beause the actual record of real Biblical prophecy is so poor.a

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anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 47 of 119 (342649)
08-23-2006 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
08-22-2006 10:40 PM


Thiesm, by Container
I have no amazing powers. Since a kid I've been into an amazing and powerful world's overall best seller of all time which has all the wisdom and knowledge anyone needs for both the here and now as well as the afterlife.
I find it strange how your god is so small its majesty can be confined within the pages of one book.

This message is a reply to:
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 4991 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 48 of 119 (342650)
08-23-2006 3:09 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
08-22-2006 11:25 PM


Re: when will we know ?
Buz writes:
There's important things yet to emerge such as the full implementation of moneyless global monetary completion....
Oooo, the commies are coming! The commies are coming!
Sorry Buz, but this isn't christianity - it's paranoid neo-conservative eschatology.
The Gospel of St George Ch3 11-30 (from the NeoCon Bible):
"...and so Jesus spoke unto them, saying, "trickle-down economics as espoused by the glorious United States of America are the true path to salvation. Moreover, US foreign policy is the word of God, and as such is sacred. Any entity (such as the UN) which harbours views that run counter to US foreign policy are to be cast out as agents of Satan himself. Now I say unto thee, so as Man is made in the image of God, the US is made in the image of Heaven. Angels don't need free healthcare."
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

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rakaz
Junior Member (Idle past 6113 days)
Posts: 15
From: The Netherlands
Joined: 01-24-2006


Message 49 of 119 (342659)
08-23-2006 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
08-22-2006 10:40 PM


Re: Amazing Powers
Buzsaw writes:
I have no amazing powers. Since a kid I've been into an amazing and powerful world's overall best seller of all time which has all the wisdom and knowledge anyone needs for both the here and now as well as the afterlife.
Predicting the end of the world is not something new. People did it before Jesus' time and people are still doing it today. There are two important constants that never seem to change: They all use scripture to support their claims and they all have been utterly wrong.
What makes your predictions different from all those others?

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Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 50 of 119 (342735)
08-23-2006 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
08-22-2006 8:50 PM


Re: Not the exact time, but the "season"
Faith writes:
I know it's pointless to mention it, but Paul was personally commissioned by Christ and took his marching orders direct from Him.
funny how Jesus doesn't mention Paul, or any outside help for that matter, in any of his speeches.
You would have thought he'd at least have told his disciples "you know guys, there's this chap who will contact you after I'm gone and he's going to help you spread the gospel..."
I suppose he changed his mind post-crucifixion.
Death can do strange things to a man (or a god).

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

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Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 51 of 119 (342741)
08-23-2006 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Buzsaw
08-22-2006 11:02 PM


1. I haven't seen anything more fulfilling (pardon the pun) than the prophecies.
The funny thing is, there hasn't been a single prophecy in the Bible that has actually come to pass, not a single thing.
2. Nobody can essentially make any sense in the prophecies going at it carelessly in a liberal manner without prayer, the Holy Spirit and doing lots of homework comparing scripture with scripture.
Psychologists call this self delusion Buz.
All that happends here is that you search as hard as you can to make some kind of sense out of the prophecy, and any remote possibility appears to make sense.
If I were you I'd be more concerned about the prophecies that haven't come true, especially all those that Jesus said He would fulfill. Not a single word Jesus said has come to pass.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 52 of 119 (342742)
08-23-2006 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Buzsaw
08-22-2006 11:02 PM


As opposed to those people who pray, and have been claiming things will happen 'really soon' that fit the prophecies, and been getting it wrong for 1800 years??

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 119 (342751)
08-23-2006 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
08-22-2006 11:25 PM


Let's look at some of these so called Prophecies!
There's important things yet to emerge such as the full implementation of moneyless global monetary completion as prophesied in Revelation 13 ...
For those who wish to read Revelations 13 it can be found here.
The passage that many interpret as Buz has is near the end. It says:
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Well, there is nothing in there that even remotely pertains to a cashless society. It MIGHT be one that you could say required some form of identification, but even then it is classically vague.
Nothing there to show a cashless society. In fact nothing there to show anything, it is implied that the mark will be some generic thing such as citizenship, and not even unique to the individual.
...revealing of the antichrist...
Again, some totally vague non-statement. Something this loose and indeterminate is just silly.
...shift in world powers...
Again, just a vague nonsense assertion. It is so hopelessly vague that I can with confidence say that it has been fulfilled annually since the very first civilization at least 4000 years before Biblical Creation.
...more significant global drout and warming...
Again, total nonsense. This too is so vague that I can also say that it has been fulfilled every year since the earth formed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2006 11:25 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 54 of 119 (342794)
08-23-2006 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
08-21-2006 11:42 PM


Re: the validity of prophecy, or, Back in the USSR
Buzsaw writes:
[i][b]This is when the 2nd advent of Jesus occurs and the Armageddon happens with the Jerusalem defended but not before the city is invaded and with part of the city ravished and many killed or taken captive.
[/i][/b]
The Savior's timing is not very merciful in this scenario, is it? He would prevent a lot of suffering by arriving earlier.
[i][b]a huge army from the East, likely including China will move into the war.
[/i][/b]
You did not always say 'China' here, and you know it.
It used to be the Soviet Union that filled this role in Armageddon prophecies. Opinion was unanimous on this point. Fundamentalists used to hand me maps showing Soviet Army troop movements. They told me I would live to see it all happen.
When the Soviet Union collapsed in the early 1990s, talk of it stopped. The Hal Lindsays of the world quickly developed a fascination with everything Chinese. They pretended they'd had this interest all along.
If you've been in the Armageddon prophecy business as long as you say, you know what I am saying is true. You saw the cast change happen. You participated in it.
This raises the question of how people with a divine gift for predicting world events can go so spectacularly wrong. Why were they blindsided by the fall of the Soviet Union and every communist regime in Europe? Doesn't God tell them anything?
[i][b] The enemies of Israel will become all be competing for dominance with them turing against one another. The slaughter will be greater of all these armies than anything in human history with the region littered with the dead of many nations.
[/i][/b]
The plain of Megiddo is too small for this. You are predicting a body count, not to mention troop levels, in multiple millions.
[i][b]There you have it and likely the non-Christian younger folks here who survive all the terrible latter day catastrophies will live to see the end.
[/i][/b]
Oh, yes. The ritual warning to the young that they will live to witness the reality of these nightmares.
No end-times prediction would be complete without this flourish. It adds a touch of veracity to a narrative that, well, could use some.
What's interesting is that when I was in my teens and twenties I was the one being told this. I would surely live to see these things happen, said the fundamentalist prophets (as they handed me a pamphlet showing charts of Soviet troop movements).
Lately they jump less often at the chance to say this to me. But they always say it to someone. Now they prefer to deliver the line to people who weren't born at the time I first heard it.
Funny how that rapture date keeps moving away.
I'm going to make a prediction of my own. On the record. Results are guaranteed.
Young adults: you are now being told that you are likely to witness the fulfillment of end-time prophecies. The would-be prophets will eventually lose interest in saying this to you. But they will always predict this for someone. They will always predict this of listeners who are in their twenties or younger at the time their predictions are made... whoever those individuals happen to be.
The show never closes. It just changes cast.

Archer

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 119 (342864)
08-23-2006 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by RickJB
08-23-2006 3:09 AM


Re: when will we know ?
How about cutting out the nonsense and respond to the specifics of the message if you wish to participate? Thanks.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 119 (342865)
08-23-2006 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by anglagard
08-23-2006 2:55 AM


Re: Thiesm, by Container
You're posting nonsense not worth a response. Please be sensible if you wish to participate. Thanks.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 119 (342866)
08-23-2006 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by rakaz
08-23-2006 4:08 AM


Re: Amazing Powers
I've explained all that. Have you read the thread? Using scripture can mean anything. What specific scriptures or statements I've made would you like to discuss?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 119 (342868)
08-23-2006 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Brian
08-23-2006 11:22 AM


Brian writes:
The funny thing is, there hasn't been a single prophecy in the Bible that has actually come to pass, not a single thing.
Well then if that's how you see it, hows about refuting the ones I'm claiming as viable? That's what this thread is for.
Brian writes:
Psychologists call this self delusion Buz.
How so; why?
Brian writes:
All that happends here is that you search as hard as you can to make some kind of sense out of the prophecy, and any remote possibility appears to make sense.
All I'm getting in this thread is substanceless rhetoric. How about some specifics so we can debate them?
Brian writes:
If I were you I'd be more concerned about the prophecies that haven't come true, especially all those that Jesus said He would fulfill. Not a single word Jesus said has come to pass.
Again, how about some sensible debate on what I've produced? You've said nothing substantive yet on anything specific.
\

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 119 (342869)
08-23-2006 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ramoss
08-23-2006 11:25 AM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ramos writes:
As opposed to those people who pray, and have been claiming things will happen 'really soon' that fit the prophecies, and been getting it wrong for 1800 years??
Well then, show where I've made the same mistakes as they've all been making by refuting my stuff?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 119 (342874)
08-23-2006 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by jar
08-23-2006 11:49 AM


Re: Let's look at some of these so called Prophecies!
jar writes:
For those who wish to read Revelations 13 it can be found here.
The passage that many interpret as Buz has is near the end. It says:
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Well, there is nothing in there that even remotely pertains to a cashless society. It MIGHT be one that you could say required some form of identification, but even then it is classically vague.
Nothing there to show a cashless society. In fact nothing there to show anything, it is implied that the mark will be some generic thing such as citizenship, and not even unique to the individual.
Thanks for linking the scripture, Jar.
1. Nobody can buy or sell without a mark or number on the hand or forehead.
2. chips with marks and numbers are already being implanted in animals, et al. It will likely be a matter of time before chips will be implanted on the forehead or hand so as to prevent security breaches and identity theft which is becoming a very serious problem.
3. The beast related to the number is the ten nation/region world power confederacy of rulers as per the same beast which is explained in Revelation 17. Thus it is a government mark or number such as the government issued social security number used presently.
4. Never in the history of the world has a number or mark been required for all all nations of the world to buy or sell. Don't forget that this is global.
Jar writes:
Again, some totally vague non-statement. Something this loose and indeterminate is just silly.
Anti=christ simply means against christ/Jesus. Mohammed's religion is against the christ/missiah/son of God aspects of Jesus. This is anti-christ and IMO the antichrist himself will be a Muslim and possibly even Mohammed resurrected as Islam teaches will happen. This antichrist is, imo, the 2nd (2 horned) beast of Rev 13. Interestingly it says this beast will come up from the earth. Could this mean resurrection of someone who has lived. That seems to be a significant possibility, though this is hypothesis and nothing more.
jar writes:
Again, just a vague nonsense assertion. It is so hopelessly vague that I can with confidence say that it has been fulfilled annually since the very first civilization at least 4000 years before Biblical Creation.
This is all yet unfulfilled stuff clearly assigned by scripture for the latter days of the age. We know that the US and Britian are the major power brokers calling the shots presently. The possibility for this to change is real as Islam, the fastest growing religion in the world including the US expands it's influence and power leveraged by the oil these nations sit on.
jar writes:
Again, total nonsense. This too is so vague that I can also say that it has been fulfilled every year since the earth formed.
Are you trying to tell me that global warming is not happening any more today than anytime else in the history of the world and that everyone claiming so are making no sense?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 08-23-2006 11:49 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 67 by Jazzns, posted 08-24-2006 11:36 AM Buzsaw has not replied
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 Message 71 by Brian, posted 08-24-2006 1:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied
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