Babel: The Mother Culture?

If Larni is 7 feet tall Larni can reach the high shelf in the kitchen.You don't see the error here?You need to establish a reason to construct the 'if'. It is evidence for your initial stance that the xian god is real that is required. This is an unsubstantiated assertion. Thats the great thing about the scientific methodology, you can create a hypothesis and then test it. Then you can use it to make testable predictions. No philiosphy involved.I would contend with greatest respect that you are conflating philosphy with an a priori assumption of the validity of the xian god's existance. Because Ubaid/Sumerian (non Semitic) culture predates Semitic Arkadians. To the tune of 2500 years. Ur had a massive great ziggurat that prdate Babylon by at least 1000 yrs.Ur fell into cultural decline. Peoples leaving Ur (and it's ziggerat) would fit very well with the Tower of Babel. Xianty mythic cycles are mostly rehashes of older coultures. Wan to know why xians in pictures have a halo? Alexander the Great believed he was divine. Xian art shamelessly ripped this off. The whole point of scientific methodolgy to to remove this. Open minded does not mean one makes a priori assumtions. This is obviously not the case. Given a lack of evidence to suggest otherwise, what purpose to pull assumtions out of thin air? Many xians would disagree with this. No it is not! Reality is demonstrated, theory predictes!

Uh, hello? That was meant to be an amusing example of idiot creationists making stuff up as they go along.

I agree with you completely. Without a purpose or a reason, there is no basis for a what if. It is necessary, just as you said. Man must have a goal, in order to motivate his mind to find it.For example: If you don't like to think of your life as immoral, you can say, "If there is no God, then I am doing nothing wrong, and can eat, drink, and be merry" In this case, the 'reason' for the equation is clearly to sleep well in spite of an uneasy fear of eternal justice. So it is natural to hypothesize that God is a social construct to control the masses, rather than the construct, by which all things are measured.And since your actions (immoral or not) are facts, and can be proven to exist with a trail of evidence by cause and effect, then we might as well conclude (with the motivating reason) that they are 'simply reality', and that there is nothing more to the equation. They are not right or wrong.It's quite a Tower your building... And what 'reason' is used as evidence to anchor the hypothesis that The Tower of Babel is a borrowed story? What 'reason' do you have to believe that?Also, to put all of the chronological ducks in a row the way you do, you would have to assume that what are believed to be earlier texts, are more accurate simply based on the time of their appearence in print. It is admitedly a reasonable test, but can prove nothing.In your position, you really have to believe everything you hear from 'educated' men as gospel with the obvious exception of Biblical truth claims. Just remember that the greatest atrocities against mankind did not come from men and women who's stomachs were empty and void of the greatest learning. But from men and women who's stomachs were full, and had the greatest access to the academy.It reminds me of the materialist test that Jesus faced in the wilderness. "Turn these stones into bread", said Satan. Jesus replied, "Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word from the mouth of God."In regard to bias:How can you presume to remove 'bias' without a priori assumption that 'bias' is not right? Would that not just be another form of bias? I think not, because one need not close his mind to assume morality, because morality is itself priori. Really?Do you think consensus can make the sun dissapear?

None of that has anything to do with the tower of Babel. "Appearance in print"? Right. If the facts don't agree with you, attack people who know the facts. Never fails. This has nothing to do with the tower of Babel. No. Bizarre non sequitur alert. No. Do you really believe that only one person has ever claimed that it is possible to know the truth?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

The important part was when He claimed to be the truth. But I would love to discuss the others you refer to.Who are they? Yes! You know... on the paper they got at Kinkos. I assume there must be some record of the Surmarian version of the story in some printed form? Certainly Larni is not arguing against Hebrew documentation by scroll with stories passed down orally! That is what the educated have been doing for the entire generation of modern man. You can take it to the bank! That's not an argument, but an assertion. Please explain...Build us a Tower to reality (God) Dr. Adequate.

Well, presumably you agree with Jesus when he said it is possible to know the truth. So you'd be an example. Written, yes. Printed, no. Again, throwing a temper-tantrum about educated people won't make the facts go away. What is there to explain? Being free of bias is not a form of being biased. Not being an elephant is not a way of being an elephant.

Dude, you miss my point: I am asking for evidence that your xian god hypothesis may be valid. By the way there is a difference between not liking to think that I am immoral and not caring. My actions being facts defined by cause and effect are in no way simlar to a belief in the xian god are they?

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Because Ubaid/Sumerian (non Semitic) culture predates Semitic Arkadians. To the tune of 2500 years. Ur had a massive great ziggurat that prdate Babylon by at least 1000 yrs.

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Ur fell into cultural decline. Peoples leaving Ur (and it's ziggerat) would fit very well with the Tower of Babel.
  —Larni

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Ta da! Welcome to one of the most used counter arguements for the veracity of the bible. Dude, bias is bad. Any bias. There is a whole side order of statistical process with the express removing bias. See here:Bias - Wikipedia(statistics)Also, what has morality got to do with accurate predictions following hypothesis testing? If we agree there is going to be an eclipse, yes.You should have nice long conversation with Iano about what it is possible to know (but I can't find the thread).

Take a peek at this:http://www.crystalinks.com/sumerlanguage.html And this:This plate illustrates a literary catalogue compiled in approximately 2000 B. C. (clay tablet 29.15.155 in the Nippur collection of the University Museum). The upper part represents the tablet itself; the lower part, the author's hand copy of the tablet. The titles of those compositions whose actual contents we can now reconstruct in large part are as follows:Note that this was prior to paper/papyrus/scroll work (very medievel).http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/sum/img/pl02.jpg1. Hymn of King Shulgi (approximately 2100 B. C.).
2. Hymn of King Lipit-Ishtar (approximately 1950 B. C.).
3. Myth, "The Creation of the Pickax" (see p. 51).
4. Hymn to Inanna, queen of heaven.
5. Hymn to Enlil, the air-god.
6. Hymn to the temple of the mother-goddess Ninhursag in the city of Kesh.
7. Epic tale, "Gilgamesh, Enkidu, and the Nether World" (see p. 30).
8. Epic tale, "Inanna and Ebih" (see p. 82).
9. Epic tale, "Gilgamesh and Huwawa."
10. Epic tale, "Gilgamesh and Agga."
11. Myth, "Cattle and Grain" (see p. 53).
12. Lamentation over the fall of Agade in the time of Naram-Sin (approximately 2400 B. C.).
13. Lamentation over the destruction of Ur. This composition, consisting of 436 lines, has been almost completely reconstructed and published by the author as Assyriological Study No. 12 of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago.
14. Lamentation over the destruction of Nippur.
15. Lamentation over the destruction of Sumer.
16. Epic tale, "Lugalbanda and Enmerkar."
17. Myth, "Inanna's Descent to the Nether World" (see p. 83).
18. Perhaps a hymn to Inanna.
19. Collection of short hymns to all the important temples of Sumer.
20. Wisdom compositions describing the activities of a boy training to be a scribe.
21. Wisdom composition, "Instructions of a Peasant to His Son." 16http://www.sacred-texts.com/ane/sum/sum05.htmSemitic adjads did not see significant use untill 1800 BCE which is well into the post Sumerian period. Sumerian culture had been extant for about 1300 yrs prior. The Sumerian culture was on its way out by 1595 BCE. It had recorded its mythic cycles nearly 1000 yrs before the Arkadians (early semites) had a working set of adjads.History of writing - WikipediaEdited by Larni, : No reason given.

Well yes I see your point, but you missed mine...You may not be an elephant, but what are you?You do exist don't you? You must be something! You must have some beliefs of some kind.Perhaps not!

You'll get no argument from me on that point! Besides being biased against bias (too logical and obvious a contradiction for you to grasp in your present state of mind), let me offer you a couple of other examples. I offer them, because I believe in miracles, and am in constant need of another myself, even more so than you (please note: that that was a compliment).Where were we? Ah yes... Bias!Seems to me that the laws of physics are pretty biased! They do not compromise or bow for the undecided!In fact you might call the laws of physics fanatical by their very nature; harsh even! Fundamental! Base! Obvious! Restrictive! Unyeilding! Repressive! etc. etc.................................Yet these laws that confine, somehow permit the perplexity of infinitude. Either that or the infinite permits them! Now I am going off course again, but the point is.......as restrictive as they are... they give us life! We are beings! We be!But since I predict (I hope falsely) that there is no satisfying a cynical mind such as yours, I know that this is a low blow to your esteemed and enlightened venacular. So let me offer another counter-argument.If any bias is bad, does that mean that you are not biased as a means of being good?Are you biased against murder?Are you biased against rape?Are you biased against theft?Are you biased against lies?It seems to me that being requires that we be very biased. Some of those requirements are even imposed upon us, such as the strength of gravity relative to the speed of light.Change that, andno soup for you!So tell me again... is bias bad?But what do I know? I am biased about all of this spouting!Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

Do you have a bias against answering a simple question? I am asking you and NJ directly.For the third time, when was the Tower of Babel built?

First of all, this is the first time you have asked me, not the third (if you have a problem with NJ, I am not suprised)Secondly, I haven't the foggiest idea when it was being built. But if you don't mind my humble correction... as the story goes, it was never completed.That hasn't stopped men from trying though (let's get that straight, since you are strongly interested in the proper interpretation of assumed facts)!Psst...Shh... (quiet now)...
Btw, some of the others here would call that bias.Men keep trying to rebuild it...Communism, Capitalism, Hedonism, Kingdoms, and various and sundry systems to bring about a saving knowledge of reality and a life of peace.Some even believe that science is not another house of cards (ie. a Tower of Babel).And third, not much has changed, whether it is several thousand, or several million years of history.Man is still an obnoxious and rebellious beast no matter what your angle on him as a species.IMO...

If it's not too much trouble, I was asking for a date, even a date it was begun, like on the cornerstone. You know, one that has numbers in it.

OK, I posted too quick. However, if you are not willing to venture a date on Babel, does that mean all other Genesis events are also without a date or date range in your opinion?

he can't answer it, because the story has no set date, being a folk tale there are no dates for anythingnow there was a tower which the story is based on but its a temple to bel restored by Nebuchadrezzar the great in 550bc, i personally believe the hebrews saw the tower as it was when they were exiled, being that its unfinished they made up a story as to why it was unfinished.
namely at an unknown time long ago every person in the area decided to build a tower to god, adding in the sumarian story of how the gods confused langages in a fight and making it so god does it to stop the people from getting to heaven.
i mean you have to ask why god didn't just destroy the tower instead, but the tower exists so its a story about why the tower was there and unfinishedEdited by ReverendDG, : No reason given.