Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Jonah and the whale - It happened!
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 18 of 145 (82486)
02-03-2004 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by q3psycho
02-03-2004 3:17 AM


Unfortunately the story you report can't be substantiated and probably isn't true.
Page not found - BBC Bitesize
http://ship-of-fools.com/Myths/04Myth.html
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010914.html
But the real question is how does any of this show that the story of Jonah happened ? Even if that part of it is just incredibly unlikely instead of definitely false it isn't positive evidence in any way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by q3psycho, posted 02-03-2004 3:17 AM q3psycho has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 23 of 145 (83269)
02-05-2004 2:54 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by kendemyer
02-04-2004 7:10 PM


Re: jonah and whale
I notice that you didn't answer my question. How does any of this show that the story of Jonah is literally true ?
That's the point directed at you. Instead all we get is an agreement that I was correct and some comments which have no real bearing on anything I said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by kendemyer, posted 02-04-2004 7:10 PM kendemyer has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 28 of 145 (83805)
02-06-2004 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Buzsaw
02-05-2004 8:18 PM


I guess you're just angry from losing so many arguments and from having your bigotry and hipocrisy exposed.
I mean I must be narrow-minded to actually READ the Bible and see what it really says rather than taking your word for it. With the result that you start ranting about bias because you can't accept that the Bible says things you don't want it to. I suppose it is narrow minded not to simply accept your unsupported opinions as facts, too. You complain about that often enough.
And so you run away from arguments - and then attack your opponents because you lost and turned tail. This is one of the reasons I have no respect for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Buzsaw, posted 02-05-2004 8:18 PM Buzsaw has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 73 of 145 (85988)
02-13-2004 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by kendemyer
02-12-2004 8:12 PM


Re: jonah and whale
No, you haven't offered any sort of "inductive proof" that it happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by kendemyer, posted 02-12-2004 8:12 PM kendemyer has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 02-13-2004 8:34 AM PaulK has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 101 of 145 (87945)
02-22-2004 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by kendemyer
02-21-2004 7:27 PM


Re: jonah and whale
The Book of Jonah is just a legend.
Jesus' reference to the story can be explained as no more than that - a reference to a story. There is no need there for the story to be true.
2 Kings 14 mentions a Jonah, but nothing of the story itself.
There is nothing unusual in a legend coming to be viewed as historical centuries later.
The ONLY person named in the story is Jonah and only a few places are named. There is no clear setting and only the reference to Jonah in 2 Kings 14 allows us to attempt a dating.
There is NO archaeological corroboration of the story and the suggestion that there is is dishonest.
The form of the book clearly suggests that it is a legend.
That was easy. Now do you have any real evidence that it actually happened ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by kendemyer, posted 02-21-2004 7:27 PM kendemyer has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 123 of 145 (88633)
02-25-2004 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by kendemyer
02-25-2004 1:32 PM


Re: jonah and whale
I did not call the Jonah story "allegory" - I called it legend.
And I note that you really do not deal with the serious points Brian raised.
For instance Brian's point that miracles are NOT "scientifically plausible" and therefore out of the stated scope of the essay needs to be dealt with. If you need to invoke miracles then it is because the story is NOT scientifically plausible.
The summary of your "scientific" argument might as well be "the story is so vague we can't say that it didn't happen". You don't know what the "great fish" is nor do you know which part of its anatomy the "belly" is (although you provide no support for your assertion that it is the word itself that is vague - for all I know it could simply be an ad hoc invention on your part).
And it would be rather good to know what it is that the 19th Century archaeologists said about Nineveh. After all they were RIGHT that there was no city of the physical size attributed to Nineveh in the Bible. So it is far from clear that it is the Bible that was correct and the skeptics wrong.
But perhaps it is because you prefer to use unreliable sources which share your biases that you have this problem finding serious support for your claims. Indeed you cannot even see the flawed reasoning - 2 Kings 14 does not support the claim that the Book of Jonah is historical. At best it establishes that Jonah was a historical character - and a rather obscure one at that. And the fact that he is so obscure is a strong hint that he accomplished nothing very amazing in Nineveh - certainly he did nothing there that the author of 2 Kings thought worth mentioning.
And I have to add this. The lack of support for many of your assertions that directly bear on the historicity of the account is very much a matter of substance, not style.
[This message has been edited by PaulK, 02-25-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by kendemyer, posted 02-25-2004 1:32 PM kendemyer has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024