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Author Topic:   The Bible is literally true, but each detail is not.
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 45 of 88 (489062)
11-22-2008 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Peg
11-22-2008 9:08 PM


Flood legends
i do appreciate what you saying though, the legends themselves do not necessarily equate to proof of a flood.
The problem with flood stories is that they are horribly nonspecific, both as to what occurred and when it occurred--if it occurred at all!
What is the most telling is that the purported global flood is placed at about 4,350 years ago and there is a mountain of evidence that shows no such flood happened at that time (in fact, there is no evidence for a worldwide flood at any time).
Creationists refuse to accept the scientific evidence and cling to any hint of support for such a flood. These worldwide flood myths are a classic example.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Peg, posted 11-22-2008 9:08 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Peg, posted 11-22-2008 10:14 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 49 of 88 (489069)
11-22-2008 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Peg
11-22-2008 10:14 PM


Re: Flood legends
when you say there is no evidence for a world wide flood, how does science explain the remains of mammoths and rhinoceroses in different parts of the earth, Some of these were found in Siberian cliffs; others were preserved in Siberian and Alaskan ice. In fact, some were found with food undigested in their stomachs or still unchewed in their teeth, indicating that they died suddenly.
And then there is the fossil remains of many other animals, such as lions, tigers, bears, and elk, have been found in common strata, which may indicate that all of these were destroyed simultaneously.
some would view this as possible evidence
These would be the ones grasping at straws.
The dead megafauna span a considerable time, rather than being all associated with a single date. The evidence for some of the extinct elephants suggests death from blizzard/ice storm rather than flood.
The various critters you mention, lions, tigers, etc. have indeed sometimes been found in the same strata. A number of these (not lions) have been found in the La Brea tar pits of southern California. For example, there have been quite a few sabre-tooth tigers (Smilodon californicus) found. A number of these were radiocarbon dated a while back, and provided a range from 12,650 to 28,000 years ago. Not exactly evidence for a flood about 4,350 years ago.
That is pretty much the case for all of the things you mentioned. They are scattered over a huge time span, and show no evidence of being killed by a flood.
Indeed, when we look at the last 10,000 or so years archaeologically we generally see continuity of human cultures, fauna and flora (except for the megafauna), DNA, and various annular indicators such as tree rings, lake sediments, ice cores, etc. There just is no evidence of a global flood.
There are smaller, more localized floods that have been found. Check out the following link describing the Channeled Scablands of southern and eastern Washington:
http://www.uwsp.edu/...ticipants/dutch/vtrips/Scablands0.HTM
I did some fieldtrips into that area in grad school. There is some fascinating evidence there of these post-glacial flood episodes. If archaeologists and other specialists can find this evidence, they should be able to find a much younger and much larger flood.
The evidence just isn't there.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Peg, posted 11-22-2008 10:14 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Peg, posted 11-22-2008 10:58 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 54 of 88 (489075)
11-22-2008 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Peg
11-22-2008 10:58 PM


Re: Flood legends
we dont know what the structure of earth was several thousands of years ago, so if it was flatter then it is today, then i would have to again say its plausible.
Actually, we do.
Just look at the materials preserved in the soils or the fossils in the rocks and you can tell a great deal about the environment.
Sea shells? You're under water.
Land plants and reptiles? You're above water.
This is not rocket science. Geologists, archaeologists and a host of other -ologists have been working on this for quite a while.
There really is no convincing evidence for a global flood, and you are grasping at straws with your "plausibility" ideas.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Peg, posted 11-22-2008 10:58 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 6:08 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 69 of 88 (489105)
11-23-2008 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Brian
11-23-2008 11:02 AM


No flood
According to the Bible, we are all descended from Noah and his sons...
Except that DNA studies have contradicted this completely.
Here is just one example: in a cave in southern Alaska a partial skeleton was found and dated to 10,300 years ago--definitely pre-flood.
The mtDNA from that individual/lineage was found in living individuals spread along the Pacific coast from California to the tip of South America.
There was no break at the approximate date of the flood, 4,350 years ago, with replacement by mtDNA associated with Noah's female kin.
Hence no flood.
This kind of evidence is common worldwide. I have a similar case from my own archaeological research dating back about 5,300 years.
You just can't have a flood which flushes all human populations but which allows regional continuity of mtDNA lineages.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Brian, posted 11-23-2008 11:02 AM Brian has not replied

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 Message 72 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 5:40 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 75 of 88 (489124)
11-23-2008 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Peg
11-23-2008 6:47 PM


Re: Not directly on Topic here.
my doubts about the carbon dating were in relation to the 10,000 year old bones found in the cave
Post your doubts to one of the proper threads and I can respond.
Please scan the thread first, as suggested, and you might find the answers already there.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Peg, posted 11-23-2008 6:47 PM Peg has not replied

  
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