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Author Topic:   Biblical instructions for translation?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 16 of 28 (125891)
07-20-2004 5:38 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Nighttrain
07-20-2004 3:20 AM


well, you know, like i said. it depends on belief. i'm not sure there is a correct translation/interpretation/copy/etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Nighttrain, posted 07-20-2004 3:20 AM Nighttrain has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by portmaster1000, posted 07-22-2004 11:04 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
portmaster1000
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 28 (126796)
07-22-2004 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by arachnophilia
07-20-2004 5:38 AM


Bible's Lifespan?
What was God's plan for the development of His Word in relation to the many generations of humans that would need to read it (or at least be taught from it) to avoid eternal damnation through accepting it?
Arachnophilia writes:
I'm not sure there is a correct translation/interpretation/copy/etc.
If God wanted to ensure the maximum number of salvations I personally would have thought He would have developed an optimal, ie "most correct", method of translating? That method could have been incorporated directly into the Bible. These instructions would have insured ALL translations were correct in meaning. In fact, the very essence of such a translation method would have spoke volumes about the foresight of the Bible. Being able to account for language development, even new languages, would surely be something only accomplished by God Himself. A Biblical translation manual would have shown that from the very earliest writings, the future of the Bible was planned by a higher power. However, may I'm seeing this situation from the wrong angle.
Perhaps having no real directions for translation relates another message. God has to depend on mankind to preserve His Word, just as He depends upon us to spread His Word. We have been entrusted with His wisdom and must strive diligently to keep it intact. For if this wondrous communication is lost... then so are we.
thanx
PM1K

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by arachnophilia, posted 07-20-2004 5:38 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by arachnophilia, posted 07-23-2004 2:19 AM portmaster1000 has replied
 Message 24 by doctrbill, posted 07-27-2004 11:02 PM portmaster1000 has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 18 of 28 (126858)
07-23-2004 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by portmaster1000
07-22-2004 11:04 PM


Re: Bible's Lifespan?
"his word" is a funny concept. god didn't give us a word, he gave us a law.
i'm not even sure how to answer your post. i think completely the opposite of your entire premise. i think god loves all his children. and since we supposedly have free will, god intervening and forcing us to say certain things about him kind of violates that.

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 Message 17 by portmaster1000, posted 07-22-2004 11:04 PM portmaster1000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by portmaster1000, posted 07-23-2004 10:05 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
portmaster1000
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 28 (126945)
07-23-2004 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by arachnophilia
07-23-2004 2:19 AM


Re: Bible's Lifespan?
Arachnophilia writes:
I think god loves all his children. and since we supposedly have free will, god intervening and forcing us to say certain things about him kind of violates that.
Excellent point and one I had not considered. Let me see if I fully understand what you are saying. Does your statement imply that a God-mandated translation law compromises free will?
thanx
PM1K

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by arachnophilia, posted 07-23-2004 2:19 AM arachnophilia has replied

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 Message 21 by arachnophilia, posted 07-24-2004 2:08 AM portmaster1000 has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 20 of 28 (127015)
07-23-2004 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Nighttrain
07-20-2004 3:20 AM


don't tell me you think followers of the kjv don't still think they have the only proper word of god. they even discount modern hebrew texts. read any chick tracts lately?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Nighttrain, posted 07-20-2004 3:20 AM Nighttrain has not replied

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 Message 22 by arachnophilia, posted 07-24-2004 2:10 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 21 of 28 (127238)
07-24-2004 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by portmaster1000
07-23-2004 10:05 AM


Re: Bible's Lifespan?
Does your statement imply that a God-mandated translation law compromises free will?
no, my statement was much more general. god excercising control over the authorship or editting or translation, or anything at all done to the bible compromises free will.
personally, i believe the bible to be a sort of window to the truth, but not the truth in and of itself. human beings have had too great a dealing in it for me to think that it was the absolute word of god. instead, i see it as one interpretation of something far, far greater than can be recorded by a book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by portmaster1000, posted 07-23-2004 10:05 AM portmaster1000 has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 22 of 28 (127239)
07-24-2004 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by macaroniandcheese
07-23-2004 2:46 PM


read any chick tracts lately?
that one's scary. it implies anyone who reads or believes any other bible is going to hell, as if there's a huge difference.
actually, scratch that. they're ALL scary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-23-2004 2:46 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-26-2004 9:40 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 23 of 28 (127938)
07-26-2004 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by arachnophilia
07-24-2004 2:10 AM


yeah. it also describes all other protestant churches as "devil worshippers" because they use "tainted" texts. *sigh*
he's a creepy, horrible person.

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 Message 22 by arachnophilia, posted 07-24-2004 2:10 AM arachnophilia has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 24 of 28 (128217)
07-27-2004 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by portmaster1000
07-22-2004 11:04 PM


Re: Bible's Lifespan?
portmaster1000 writes:
God has to depend on mankind to preserve His Word, ... if this wondrous communication is lost... then so are we.
Sir: You speak as if your God is dead!
Wouldn't a living God revise the damned thing himself?
This silly conflict makes 'His people' look like quarrelsome idiots.
P.S. Do you really believe we are saved through faith in the Bible?
db

Adult Sunday School

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by portmaster1000, posted 07-22-2004 11:04 PM portmaster1000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by portmaster1000, posted 07-28-2004 10:18 AM doctrbill has replied

  
portmaster1000
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 28 (128350)
07-28-2004 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by doctrbill
07-27-2004 11:02 PM


Re: Bible's Lifespan?
doctrbill writes:
Sir: You speak as if your God is dead!
Dead? I did not intend to imply a "divine fatality".
I was merely trying to look at the problem from a different angle. I personally see the lack of any biblical translation guidance as something of a quandary.
doctrbill writes:
This silly conflict makes 'His people' look like quarrelsome idiots.
God possesses perfect knowledge of the future and we have many descriptions in the Bible of prophets being privy to that knowledge. The prophets knowledge of the future comes directly from God. In all this exposure of the future, God never reveals any bit of linguistic knowledge that would prevent your astute observation of this most silly conflict from arising.
doctrbill writes:
P.S. Do you really believe we are saved through faith in the Bible?
The Bible teaches that salvation occurs through believe in Jesus Christ as a personal lord and savior. The Bible itself is the pathway or guide to that salvation. If translating the Bible has been left to human hands without any written divine instructions is the Bible in it's current form truly an optimal guide?
thanx
PM1K

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by doctrbill, posted 07-27-2004 11:02 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by doctrbill, posted 07-28-2004 10:27 AM portmaster1000 has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 26 of 28 (128352)
07-28-2004 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by portmaster1000
07-28-2004 10:18 AM


Re: Bible's Lifespan?
portmaster1000 writes:
If translating the Bible has been left to human hands without any written divine instructions is the Bible in it's current form truly an optimal guide?
Excellent point. I like your suggestion re: a translation guide but why not go all the way with it? Why not simply stay in touch with his people and give timely advice, to every culture and language, in wartime and peacetime, until everyone sees the wisdom of his words? They aren't his words in the Bible, are they now? They are John's words and David's words, etc. Once translated - they are someone else's words again, and eventually your words and mine.
The only solution I see for this self imposed (by believers) dilemma is for the deity to stay in touch. After all, how difficult could it be for him to make a simple phone call or send us an email?
db

Adult Sunday School

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by portmaster1000, posted 07-28-2004 10:18 AM portmaster1000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by portmaster1000, posted 07-28-2004 12:10 PM doctrbill has replied

  
portmaster1000
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 28 (128376)
07-28-2004 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by doctrbill
07-28-2004 10:27 AM


From: YHWH@ZION.ORG?
doctrbill writes:
The only solution I see for this self imposed (by believers) dilemma is for the deity to stay in touch. After all, how difficult could it be for him to make a simple phone call or send us an email?
I'm not sure the email would make it through a normal spam filter.
Just a thought - Wouldn't prayer be seen as God staying in touch? Afterall it's defined as communion with God. However, praying is not the same as reading a written communique (not even close IMHO).
doctrbill writes:
Why not simply stay in touch with his people and give timely advice, to every culture and language, in wartime and peacetime, until everyone sees the wisdom of his words?
Good question. That solution would seem be a much better than having to constantly rewrite/revise for new generations.
thanx
PM1K

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by doctrbill, posted 07-28-2004 10:27 AM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by doctrbill, posted 07-28-2004 3:49 PM portmaster1000 has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 28 of 28 (128422)
07-28-2004 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by portmaster1000
07-28-2004 12:10 PM


Re: From: YHWH@ZION.ORG?
portmaster1000 writes:
Wouldn't prayer be seen as God staying in touch?
It might, if the channel were clear and the messages unequivocal. But prayer is one of those 'slippery' things which is difficult to practice and even more difficult to describe.
And there's the dilemma pointed out by a Greek philosopher who said something to the effect that: If the gods truly answered mens prayers then mankind would soon cease to exist, for men are always praying that some sort of evil might befall their enemies.
Indeed, the deity's failure to communicate clearly and effectively is one of the greatest 'evidences' in favor of his absence.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by portmaster1000, posted 07-28-2004 12:10 PM portmaster1000 has not replied

  
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