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Author Topic:   What's Best Reconciliation of Gen 1 and 2 You've Heard?
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 307 (317379)
06-03-2006 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Coragyps
06-03-2006 9:58 PM


They are rank amateurs at that site. Sorry you seem impressed with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Coragyps, posted 06-03-2006 9:58 PM Coragyps has not replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 242 of 307 (317381)
06-03-2006 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by simple
06-03-2006 9:37 PM


She isn't mentioned as named yet till there, is there any reason Adam may not have named her the day after he named the animals?
Once again, my advice to you is the same as it's been the whole way through: READ THE BOOK!
quote:
Gen 3:20 -- And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
His reason was because Eve was going to have children. Clearly he could not give her a name in Gen 2 for a reason that didn't exist. She first needed to become pregnant (post-Fall) and then he named her. I'm beginning to think there isn't a single chapter that you don't misread.
No, I am not the only one. Just read a bible commentary some day.
I've actually read a few, yes. However, never have I heard of anything so crazy as plants on the moon and humans in space. Please now, it's time to set the pipe aside and read the book for what it says.
Trék
Edited by Invictus, : fixed broken tag

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by simple, posted 06-03-2006 9:37 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by simple, posted 06-03-2006 10:22 PM Jon has replied
 Message 258 by arachnophilia, posted 06-04-2006 1:51 AM Jon has not replied

lfen
Member (Idle past 4696 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 243 of 307 (317382)
06-03-2006 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Coragyps
06-03-2006 9:58 PM


HEADS UP a simple siting or a clone of simple
You don't want to play that game.
Oh but he does. If whisper is not simple he is somebody who has cloned simple's gimmick. He is luring anyone into a debate where he will spring his endless stalemate that the laws of the universe were changed by God some time in the past and then he can pull any answer he wants out of his behind because he will then negate anything you say based on whatever he wants to based on this last thursdayism until everyone tires of it.
Just a heads ups. This is as tedious a repetitious troll as I've ever encountered.
lfen
Edited by lfen, : Noticed there wasn't a subtitle and came back to add it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Coragyps, posted 06-03-2006 9:58 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 260 by arachnophilia, posted 06-04-2006 1:55 AM lfen has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 753 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 244 of 307 (317384)
06-03-2006 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by lfen
06-03-2006 10:15 PM


This is as tedious a repetitious troll as I've ever encountered.
But, fortunately for me, I'm starting to get senile enough that it bothers me less these days. I forget yesterday's BS more easily now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by lfen, posted 06-03-2006 10:15 PM lfen has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 245 of 307 (317386)
06-03-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by lfen
06-03-2006 9:56 PM


quote:
As to Genesis the topic here is limited to Gen 1 and 2. So I will briefly mention Noah, the Exodus, and Jericho but I won't discuss them as that would be off topic.
I don't get it? What about them?
quote:
I just want to register my offense that you are fobbing off all these old human books on God. Just because the books carry no author's names doesn't mean that they weren't written by humans and is absolutely no justification for blaming them on God.
Jesus said the scriptures were great. He fulfilled them He used them all the time. How is it we should think you know better again?

This message is a reply to:
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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 246 of 307 (317388)
06-03-2006 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by Jon
06-03-2006 10:11 PM


quote:
His reason was because Eve was going to have children.
They knew thay were the first ones, yes. That is why they were made male and female.
Now, can you show me why no babies could have been existing before the fall? You claimed it, back it up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Jon, posted 06-03-2006 10:11 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Jon, posted 06-03-2006 10:35 PM simple has replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 307 (317389)
06-03-2006 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by simple
06-03-2006 9:33 PM


Beings. For example the lady watching creation in Proverbs chap 8.
C'mon mate! You're just inventing more fanciful ideas in order to prove the other (obviously false) fanciful ideas. All in support of a twisted half-literalist/half-drunk reading of what now appears to be not only Gen 1&2, but the whole Bible too!
Insinuating God doesn't have His Ps and Qs right as author of the bible!
Tell me, what evidence do you have that God wrote the Good Book?
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by simple, posted 06-03-2006 9:33 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by simple, posted 06-04-2006 12:59 AM Jon has replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 248 of 307 (317395)
06-03-2006 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by simple
06-03-2006 10:22 PM


That is why they were made male and female.
Now, can you show me why no babies could have been existing before the fall?
It's not that they COULDN'T exist, it's just that they DIDN'T exist. Adam cannot name his wife Eve because she is mother of all the living long before she bears children. Afterall, Adam was fresh formed from the ground... I doubt he knew much about what he would do with a woman. Look at her? Sit on her?... oh WAIT! Have children with her... becomes quite obvious after gaining the knowledge of good and evil, don't you think?
But, I'm going to stop with Eve and her name, because it's not important to the creation.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by simple, posted 06-03-2006 10:22 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by simple, posted 06-04-2006 1:03 AM Jon has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 249 of 307 (317430)
06-04-2006 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Jon
06-03-2006 10:26 PM


quote:
C'mon mate! You're just inventing more fanciful ideas in order to prove the other (obviously false) fanciful ideas. All in support of a twisted half-literalist/half-drunk reading of what now appears to be not only Gen 1&2, but the whole Bible too!
Actually I am correct here. Read it and see.
quote:
Tell me, what evidence do you have that God wrote the Good Book?
It is alive, it works. It's prophesies are beyond compare. I have no reason whatsoever to assume He did not give us a book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Jon, posted 06-03-2006 10:26 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Jon, posted 06-04-2006 1:32 AM simple has not replied

simple 
Inactive Member


Message 250 of 307 (317432)
06-04-2006 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Jon
06-03-2006 10:35 PM


quote:
It's not that they COULDN'T exist, it's just that they DIDN'T exist. Adam cannot name his wife Eve because she is mother of all the living long before she bears children.
How long was chap 3 from chap 1? How do you know?
quote:
I doubt he knew much about what he would do with a woman. Look at her? Sit on her?... oh WAIT! Have children with her... becomes quite obvious after gaining the knowledge of good and evil, don't you think?
No, I don't think so at all. God commanded them to have sex right away. They knew all about it. Nothing at all to do with sin. They only became ashamed of being naked after sin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Jon, posted 06-03-2006 10:35 PM Jon has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1363 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 251 of 307 (317436)
06-04-2006 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by simple
06-03-2006 5:27 PM


Says you. Adam is mentioned in the new Testament as well. It spans the whole bible. Not just a few chapters.
the specific story of adam and eve is given in genesis 2 and 3, and continued in 4 with cain and abel. i know they're mentioned all over the place, but their story is those three chapters. it's not just some aside information. it's their story.
And it all agrees perfectly.
says you.
All that sticks out like a sore thumb is your twisted insistance God is so wacky He couldn't get it straight.
no, you're the one with the twisted insistance that god is whacky -- because the rest of us see some pretty obvious problems here, and you are trying to assigne those problems to god's hand.
Your imagining that some bizarre other creation order is crypted into the bible!
because we can read the story, whisper. it's reading comprehension. first one event happens, then another event happens. the story is not told out-of-order, no matter how much you insist that it must be. it makes no sense out of order, and your order directly contradicts the actual text of the story.
Funny He didn't want the hebrews saying His name. He told the Christians exactly what it was. Jesus. That is in english. That is the name of God. The only name that need concern men.
funny, because jesus himself would not have recognized the name. though if you called him "joshua" he might have understood you. further, that's not the name of god. the name of god is . that's yud-heh-vav-heh, four semi-vowels. it's pronounced "Ya-Hu-Eh"
At one time there was. Plants wwere made before men. Don't get confused with the fireside chat of Gen 2, where we go back and see how He did a few things.
again, you require that we ignore genesis 2, in favor of genesis 1. gen 2 SAYS that before man, there were no plants. it SAYS that. it gives us a REASON WHY, too.
It matters enough for God to have told us about it. But these things were not in the Gen 2 order, that is a lookie back at what was done already. So this should clench it for you. Man was made first, then the animals, chap 2 doesn't make that order clear, therefore-----chap 2 is not meant to be such an order! What other evidence do you need?
you don't understand what evidence is, do you?
and chapter two DOES make that order clear. perfectly clear, in fact. man has lonely, so god made animals. one is caused by the other. your order requires that genesis 2 is completely written in an incomprehensible and confusing order, where effect precedes the cause, and the verses themselves lie.
No, I told you all that stuff. Chap 1 was the order. All relationships revolve around this. Don't ignore that.
genesis 2 SAYS that there were no plants because there was no man. then it SAYS that AFTER man was created, he was lonely, so god made animals. these are cause-effect relationships. they REQUIRE that genesis 2 is told in order, not out of order. you are ignoring the text because it doesn't fit your idea.
It is plain enough, don't insult the Almighty by claiming He messed it up. You simply got it all messed up.
no, i'm not insulting god. you are insulting god by saying he wrote something this contradictory. you are insulting god by associating him with this sort of work.
and evidently, it's NOT plain enough since you simply cannot seem to understand it.
No need to pretend, there are none at all. Chap 2 only seems like a contradiction if you disregard and disbelieve the already complete stated creation order of chap 1.
chapter 2 only seems like a contradictions if you've read it.
Read for what it is, more details of what was created, it is wonderful. The rest is only in your mind.
and the DETAILS contradict the other story.
OK, so? You want to display your attempt at explaining a verse. Fine. Pitiful, but fine. Even through a dark glass, one ought to see God had finished by chap 2!
no, you fail to recognize your own ignorance.
You think someone broke chap 1 now? No. Chap 2 is not a replacement, it is another chapter. One that gives more details of what was just created. The man was Adam. The woman was Eve. I mean, get with the plan here.
just read the book. stop pretending you know what it says, and read it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by simple, posted 06-03-2006 5:27 PM simple has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by lfen, posted 06-04-2006 1:39 AM arachnophilia has replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 252 of 307 (317438)
06-04-2006 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by simple
06-04-2006 12:59 AM


Actually I am correct here. Read it and see.
The Bible doesn't talk about creatures beeing created on a foreign celestial body and put on hold until God made the animals (which prevented the creatures from seeing the creation, yet allowed them to be made BEFORE creation was done).
It is alive, it works. It's prophesies are beyond compare. I have no reason whatsoever to assume He did not give us a book.
Your belief that it is right is NOT evidence.
Trék

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by simple, posted 06-04-2006 12:59 AM simple has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by arachnophilia, posted 06-04-2006 1:37 AM Jon has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1363 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 253 of 307 (317440)
06-04-2006 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by simple
06-03-2006 9:35 PM


Oh reallly? Give us then 3 examples of how God and His bible are wrong.
you don't want to get into this here, and it's not place. but i have some fun examples for you.
quote:
1Ki 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
the circle's diameter is 10 units. it's circumference is 30 units. that makes pi (the ratio of circumference to diameter) = 3. i've seen some fun apology for this one, regarding tricks of measurement, but it's ad-hoc and stupid.
but here are my favourite two that make fundamentalists squirm.
quote:
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
same story, crucial detail changed. similarly:
quote:
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by simple, posted 06-03-2006 9:35 PM simple has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1363 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 254 of 307 (317441)
06-04-2006 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Jon
06-04-2006 1:32 AM


The Bible doesn't talk about creatures beeing created on a foreign celestial body and put on hold until God made the animals (which prevented the creatures from seeing the creation, yet allowed them to be made BEFORE creation was done).
indeed, genesis 2 is the story that has god directly forming animals. in genesis 1, god commands the earth to bring forth animals.
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Jon, posted 06-04-2006 1:32 AM Jon has not replied

lfen
Member (Idle past 4696 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 255 of 307 (317442)
06-04-2006 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by arachnophilia
06-04-2006 1:28 AM


you don't understand what evidence is, do you?
Arach,
That is simple aka whisper that you are arguing with! Remember he is the guy who claims there were entirely different laws of physics in the universe prior to God changing them to what we know now.
Evidence means nothing to him! Nothing at all! He makes up anything he wants, any time he wants and applies to whatever he wants.
Evidence? He don't need no stinkin' evidence!
Sheesh,
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by arachnophilia, posted 06-04-2006 1:28 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by arachnophilia, posted 06-04-2006 1:48 AM lfen has replied

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