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Author Topic:   Name The City
Architect-426
Member (Idle past 2031 days)
Posts: 76
From: NC, USA
Joined: 07-16-2008


Message 91 of 126 (475561)
07-16-2008 6:19 PM


Hello everyone, I am new to the EVC forum and thought I'd jump in here.

Chapters 17 and 18 are very interesting in that in the past I was always curious that the Babylon John is talking about is a metaphor to another place such as Rome or even the USA, as Babylon is now a ruin. I am an Architect and the recent explosion of construction activity in the Persian Gulf region has made me rethink my previous views on this. The efforts underway there are beyond anything I have ever seen or studied in architectural history, ANYTHING!

Brand new cities are being planned/built throughout the UAE, Saudi, and in the ancient Babylonian empire area of Kuwait. In fact there will be a new city at the mouth of the Euphraties called the City of Silk and it will contain several districts including a huge port, and the currently planned worlds tallest building. Dubai is aiming at becoming the economic capital of the world, and is succeeding. Interesting that recently these countries have now erased the Iraqi debts in order to promote their political alliance.

So my observation is that we may be witnessing the rebirth of Babylon the Great and it consists of a series of new mega-cities in this entire region. Any other thoughts on this?

Thanks.


Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by bluegenes, posted 07-17-2008 1:16 PM Architect-426 has not yet responded

    
bluegenes
Member
Posts: 3084
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 92 of 126 (475683)
07-17-2008 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Architect-426
07-16-2008 6:19 PM


Oil, not Babylon!
Architect writes:

So my observation is that we may be witnessing the rebirth of Babylon the Great and it consists of a series of new mega-cities in this entire region. Any other thoughts on this?

My thoughts are that we're witnessing the spending of oil wealth, and I hope the economies are diversifying quickly, or we might see a tragedy when the value of oil plummets.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Architect-426, posted 07-16-2008 6:19 PM Architect-426 has not yet responded

  
Architect-426
Member (Idle past 2031 days)
Posts: 76
From: NC, USA
Joined: 07-16-2008


Message 93 of 126 (475712)
07-17-2008 4:29 PM


Yes its oil alright and the whole world is drinking it. Chapter 18 talks about excessive luxuries, merchants of the world, fine things that the world will buy from her, etc. After oil prices calm down, what could be left is a economic engine with political and cultural influence all over the world. The excessiveness in the buildings is beyond anything I have seen in design and construction.

Here are a couple of links you'll find interesting. Click the video and watch, be sure to turn your speakers on for the full effect. Maybe its not the new Babylon, but still fascinating.....

http://www.civicarts.com/madinat-al-hareer.php

http://www.civicarts.com/mohammed-bin-rashid-gardens.php


    
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3000 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 94 of 126 (475758)
07-18-2008 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
09-29-2003 10:20 AM


So the challenge remains........NAME THAT CITY

Babylon, New York

It sounds like its all about the burden of Ninevah as expressed in the book of Nahum. The cities that were destroyed Ninevah, Populous, Babylon it appears because of this burden of Ninevah (the mother of harlets)that going even back to when Ninevah was destroyed said stand stand while instead they fled away but in akjv Rev 17:5 its a MYSTERY because it was prophecy a city for those harlots that fled Ninevah, Babylon that was to be not just another City, but Babylon the Great the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. kjv Nahum 3:16 Were to rejoice when she is destroyed the burden of Ninevah appears its about the emptiers and the marrers of the vine. akjv Nahum 2:2. Free trade seems about the emptiers and separation of church and state including infidel religions equal status with christian religions certainly is not what the founding fathers wanted but is marring the Christian faith. Like children are being rewarded not for being good for goodness sake (spanking is not politically correct)instead the political correct way to keep children in line is rewarding them for not being a brat.

This too me is a form of children playing the part of a harlot being good for reward, a wife using sex to get her way, shunning someone to get ones way, its all just seems about the statue of liberty message freedom like the whore saying here I sit a queen which might be a wife husband (me myself and I instead of being a wife, husband, son, or daughter everyone sitting in the head chair where its about being served instead of serving, etc...

The bible says not to cast your pearls to swine but all it seems to be is everyone is me myself and I but the emptiers want you to want for self cause then they have another whore to self.

Babylon the Great mother of harlots, prostitute, whore, etc...

whore Audio Help (hôr, hōr) Pronunciation Key
n.
A prostitute.
A person considered sexually promiscuous.
A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/whore

So you end up a slave in a job that pays nothing due to these emptiers using free trade to take your job to China, Mexico, and bring workers into america to take away your job. All to prop up the stock market of Babylon the Great located in babylon new york doing what they always do emptying nations of their wealth, etc...

The burden of Ninevah, the burden of Babylon, and the burden of the Babylon the Great is stealing the wealth of the nations and emptying christian values by giving infidel religions equal freedoms and is not this a bit what the prosperity gospel is about. In Israel God had the jubilee where debt was washed every 50 years and the land reverted to the original tribes. Now thats a setup for prosperity instead of debt based on nothing multiplying which is American national debt funded by the money changers.

It certainly was interesting how Christ overturned the money changers tables, etc...

P.S. The statue of Liberty akjv rev 17:4 ? & 17:18 The great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth babylon, New York.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3130 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 95 of 126 (476838)
07-27-2008 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
09-28-2003 11:10 PM


Another Option
Actually, I believe the best interpretation for the name of the city is actually Jerusalem!

Babylon is regarded as false religion and the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah saying let his blood be on our heads and our childrens heads and embraced false religion. In Matthew 24:1-35 the prophecies are to be fulfilled in the generation who heard them meaning that very generation culminating with the destruction of the temple. All the prophecies of Matthew 24:1-35 were fulfilled by the time the temple was destroyed. More on that later.

In Revelations 17 the harlot is Jerusalem which incidentally sits on 7 hills, and the beast is Rome with Nero who is the king of vs 10 who must continue a short time as Nero only reigned a couple of years. The 10 kings are the emperors of Rome who finally destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. I'm going mostly from Memory but will look up the actual arguments that are from David Chilton who was a genius in eschatology.

In my opinion Chilton's work is the definitive work in eschatology. He wrote a commentary on Revelations which can be read for free at a site called www.freebooks.com.


"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3000 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 96 of 126 (476840)
07-27-2008 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by ReformedRob
07-27-2008 12:26 AM


Re: Another Option

The mystery babylon can not be Jerusalem for Christ is to rule an reign from Jerusalem. God Word has it that Jerusalem will again be called the city of righteousness Isaiah 1:26 and that the Word of the Lord shall come from Jerusalem.

Since the Lord is to rule an reign those thousand years from Jerusalem it is not the great whore but during his ruling and reigning Jerusalem will be called the city of righteousness the faithful city. Isaiah 1:26

kjv Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

kjv Isaiah 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3130 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 97 of 126 (476849)
07-27-2008 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by johnfolton
07-27-2008 2:50 AM


Re: Another Option
Just because the Romans destroyed Jerusalem doesnt mean that Christ cannot return and reign from her again! The passages in Isaiah will still be fulfilled.

Rev 17 says the beast with ten horns turns against the harlot and destroys her which is Roman sacking Jerusalem after surrounding her with armies twice fulfilling Matthew 24.

As well Jerusalem sits on seven hills, committed the greatest crime in history rejecting Jesus as the messiah and embraces false idolatrous religion and killed many of the prophets and so is drunk on their blood. All the woes of Matthew 23 were to be visited upon that generation (v 36) and the temple was to be left desolate (v 38).

The identity of Jerusalem as the harlot riding the beast which is Rome who destroys the harlot as Rome destroyed Jerusalem makes the most sense. Nothing about this says Christ cannot reign from Jerusalem again.


This message is a reply to:
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ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3130 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 98 of 126 (476874)
07-27-2008 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by johnfolton
07-27-2008 2:50 AM


Re: Another Option
John,

I find it interesting that you cited Isaiah starting with 1:26 but ignored v 21 which explicitly identifies Jerusalem as the Harlot:

"How the faithful City has become a Harlot, She who was once full of justice! Righteousness once lodged in her, But now murderers."

As well, Jeremiah identifies Jerusalem as the Harlot as well:

"For long ago I broke your yoke And tore off your bonds; But you said, “I will not serve!” For on every high hill And under every green tree You have lain down as a harlot. . . . You are a swift young camel entangling her ways, A wild donkey accustomed to the wilderness, That sniffs the wind in her passion. In the time of her heat who can turn her away? All who seek her will not become weary; In her month they will find her. . . . Your sword has devoured your prophets Like a destroying lion. O generation, hear the Word of the LoRD. Have I been a wilderness to Israel, Or a land of thick darkness? Why do My people say, “We are free to roam; We will come no more to Thee”? Can a virgin forget her ornaments, Or a Bride her attire? Yet My people have forgotten Me Days without number. How well you prepare your way To seek love! Therefore even the wicked women You have taught your ways. . . .God says, If a husband divorces his wife, And she goes from him And belongs to another man, Will he still return to her? Will not that land be completely polluted? But you are a harlot with many lovers; Yet you turn to Me, declares the LORD. Lift up your eyes to the bare heights and see; Where have you not been violated? By the roads you have sat for them Like an Arab in the desert, And you have polluted a land With your harlotry and with your wickedness. Therefore the showers have been withheld, And there has been no spring rain. Yet you had a harlot’s forehead; You refused to be ashamed." Jer. 2:20-24, 30-33; 3:1-3

Ezekiel in chapt 16 goes into graphic detail describing Jerusalem as a harlot and in chapt 23. It is very common for prophets in the Old Testament to describe Jerusalem as a Harlot and so in the case of Revelations the principal of letting scripture interpret scripture would make it more than likely that Jerusalem is the Harlot city who killed the prophets and was drunk on their blood and who rode on Rome the beast who later destroyed the Harlot just as Rome did in the first century.

I strongly suggest to all who are interested in eschatology like this to get David Chilton's commentary on Revelations: "Days of Vengeance" available for free on www.freebooks.com

Edited by ReformedRob, : forgot my signature


"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by johnfolton, posted 07-28-2008 12:26 AM ReformedRob has responded

    
ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3130 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 99 of 126 (476875)
07-27-2008 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
09-28-2003 11:10 PM


A better interpretation IMHB
Buzsaw,

Thought you might enjoy my response to John #98 as to why it is much more likely the Harlot city is Jerusalem

Phileo

Rob


"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 09-28-2003 11:10 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3000 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 100 of 126 (476878)
07-28-2008 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by ReformedRob
07-27-2008 9:26 PM


Re: Another Option

The great city called Babylon it says it is to be thrown down and shall be found no more at all. akjv rev 18:21

P.S. It does not say Jerusalem it says the great city called Babylon. Lots of great cities but only one today called Babylon that satisfies akjv rev 18:21.

Jerusalem (Christian anti-semitism)& Vatican Rome (Protestant anti-Catholicism) Both Jerusalem and Rome are Great cities but Neither has a harbor to satisfy kjv Rev 18:19 neither are called Babylon to satisfy kjv rev 18:21.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V92Hg3yUpLM

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ReformedRob
Member (Idle past 3130 days)
Posts: 143
From: Anthem AZ, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


Message 101 of 126 (476955)
07-28-2008 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by johnfolton
07-28-2008 12:26 AM


Re: Another Option
There are many cases where scripture said cities would be destroyed and would never exist anymore but there are cities there now because the context is what the city represents spiritually not just the physical manifestation like Tyre and Edom. They were physically destroyed and never regained their former status even though there are modern cities there now. So the fact that Jerusalem has people living there is irrelevant just as it is irrelevant that Tyre has people living there again also; Tyre is no longer the glorious city state it was before it was destroyed. Jerusalem is the same. Jerusalem is obviously representative of Israel who was the harlot referred to in the OT passages I referenced in my previous post, who was dispersed throughout the world because they rejected the messiah and lost their position as the covenant people. The covenant then went out to the gentiles who then became Israel, replacing Jerusalem, and even when the Jews are grafted in again per Romans 11 they are not the sole covenant people but become partakers with the gentiles so they/Israel/Jerusalem never regain the former status fulfilling the passage in Revelations 18.

Edited by ReformedRob, : forgot signature


"...but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by johnfolton, posted 07-28-2008 12:26 AM johnfolton has responded

Replies to this message:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3000 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 102 of 126 (476960)
07-29-2008 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by ReformedRob
07-28-2008 11:02 PM


Re: Another Option

The great whore falls just before the reaping of the tares and the wheat!!!!!!! akjv akjv rev 14:15 and Matthew 13:24. The Saints that missed the rapture (left behind) akjv rev 7:9 because their roots were too entwined with the world are reaped instead by the LORD to join those that were raptured at the last trump of God (not at the last angelic trumpet) but before the first angelic trumpet starting the day of the wrath of God Rev 7:14 RAPTURE happens before the great day of the wrath of God. The reaped reaped will go thru part of that great day of the wrath of God (the seven seals and the seven angelic trumpets but to be reaped before the vials of Wrath. In fact appears the tares reaped might all be part of the vials of wrath? The wheat is reaped first to join the Saints that will come marching in those wanting to be part of that number, etc...

All happening before the Lord sets his feet on the Mount of Olives with the Saints from the rapture (akjv rev 7:14) and the reaped of the LORD!!!!!!!! (akjv rev 15:2).

Jerusalem still exists has not been destroyed by the beast but taken when the LORD sets his feet on the Mount of Olives to battle the beast and the false prophet. kjv rev 20:20.

Zechariah 14:2-3 The Word says that he will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle and the city shall be taken but then the LORD shall go forth and fight against those nations.

kjv psalm 122 says to pray for the Peace of Jerusalem!!!!!! When the LORD my GOD shall come and all the saints with thee. akjv Zechariah 14:5-9.

akjv revelation 19:14 the armies in heaven following him upon white horses and akjv revelation 19:19.

________________________________________________________________

Louis Armstrong - When The Saints Go Marching In

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyLjbMBpGDA

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28828
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 103 of 126 (574332)
08-15-2010 11:53 AM


Washington DC. It is the only site that meets all of the criteria exactly.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by subbie, posted 08-15-2010 12:02 PM jar has responded

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 115 days)
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 104 of 126 (574334)
08-15-2010 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by jar
08-15-2010 11:53 AM


Dude, how bored are you that you needed to dredge up this steaming pile of crap?


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 08-15-2010 11:53 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28828
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 105 of 126 (574337)
08-15-2010 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by subbie
08-15-2010 12:02 PM


It was referenced in another thread as actually support for Buz's nonsense. It was crap way back then and is still crrap, but DC certainly meats all the requirements found in Revelations.

Of course, Revelations is only talking about stuff that was to have come about 1500 years or so ago and failed then. It's old news.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by subbie, posted 08-15-2010 12:02 PM subbie has acknowledged this reply

  
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