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Author Topic:   Belief Statements - Robinrohan
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 99 (337826)
08-03-2006 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
08-03-2006 8:38 PM


Re: purpose, altruism
Just following one's own inclinations isn't exactly finding a purpose is it? Or is it? Meaning is another thing, however. I did want meaning and couldn't find any of that either.

There's always some purpose involved. It can change of course.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 08-03-2006 8:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
iano
Member (Idle past 569 days)
Posts: 6164
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 17 of 99 (337827)
08-03-2006 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Modulous
08-03-2006 4:03 PM


Re: Spinning that web
Thanks Mod. I'll give your links a spin when I get a mo. I found the whole thing fascinating and was just reminded by the post to find out more about how they do it. A scan of the links indicates that my cursory wonder then was only scratching the tip of the iceberg. The complexity is probably even more immense than my knowledge-lite of programming allows. (It was the programming aspect that caught me most - the engineer in me took the mechanical aspects for *blush* granted)
This message is a reply to:
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Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 18 of 99 (337848)
08-04-2006 2:53 AM


Robin, Faith, and the others
robinrohan writes:

We are products of a mindless universe. We are here, hanging about, trying to figure out what it's all about, and then we come to understand that it's not about anything at all.

Beautiful! (The rest of your story as well.) You are a poet, Robin.

Faith writes:

I think RAZD is right, the other option is just living or just not thinking about it much.

I don't remember giving much thought to purpose in my life BC. There were things I liked to do and I tried to do them, and things I didn't like to do and I tried to avoid them, and things I knew I must do so I did them, and that was about it for purpose. Just following one's own inclinations isn't exactly finding a purpose is it? Or is it? Meaning is another thing, however. I did want meaning and couldn't find any of that either.

"My life BC"?? Come on Faith, I know you're not the youngest, but surely you can't be that old?!

But seriously, that was a joy to read. I don't know why really. I mean, you're not saying anything particularly profound there, but yet the flow of your sentences makes them read like something out of the memoirs of a philosophical giant. Have you ever considered studying philosophy? I think you and Robin should pair up. You two would make a wonderful team writing philosophical poetic prose. Your writing, Robin's, and that of some of the others, is why I keep coming back to EvC. That, and the intellectually stimulating discussions.


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.

Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 08-04-2006 7:10 AM Parasomnium has responded
 Message 22 by robinrohan, posted 08-04-2006 7:51 AM Parasomnium has responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2063 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 19 of 99 (337858)
08-04-2006 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by AdminAsgara
08-02-2006 11:24 PM


Robin,

Since I'm currently reading Nisargadatta's book I AM THAT, I'll make another futile attempt of presenting what I see as an alternative to beliefs either religious or nihilistic.

Nisargadatta: The source of consciousness cannot be an object in consciousness. To know the source is to be the source. When you realize that you are not the person, but the pure and calm witness, and that fearless awareness is your very being, you are the being...

Questioner: Shapes and names are all of one and the the same God?

N: Again, it all depends on how you look at it. On the verbal level everything is relative. Absolutes should be experienced not discussed.
...
Q: Does it mean that the Unknown is inaccessible?

N: Oh, no. The Supreme is the easiest to reach for it is your very being. It is enough to stop thinking and desiring anything, but the Supreme. ...

Q: Why do desires arise at all?

N: Because you imagine that you were born, and that you will die if you do not take care of your body. Desire for embodied existence is the root-cause of trouble.

The vast complexity of the world captures our attention. The mystery of ourselves gets ignored as are fascination with the manifest universe developes. The meaninglessness can serve to direct our attention back to our basic nature. Dissatisfaction in the dream state can function to help awakening.

The meaning is not out there in the world. Nor is it even in the organism as desires, feelings, ideas. It is in that which is the seeing and thus can't see itself.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AdminAsgara, posted 08-02-2006 11:24 PM AdminAsgara has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by robinrohan, posted 08-04-2006 7:54 AM lfen has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24502
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 20 of 99 (337873)
08-04-2006 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Parasomnium
08-04-2006 2:53 AM


Re: Robin, Faith, and the others
Thank you, Parasomnium, I also appreciate your writing, and I'm thoroughly smitten with Robin's writing. Another one here whose writing grabs my attention is Omnivorous. It makes it worth it to take some time crafting sentences knowing there are people around who are sensitive to such things. It's true, though, you can make something trivial sound important if you express it elegantly.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Parasomnium, posted 08-04-2006 2:53 AM Parasomnium has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Parasomnium, posted 08-04-2006 7:51 AM Faith has responded

    
Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 21 of 99 (337876)
08-04-2006 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
08-04-2006 7:10 AM


Re: Robin, Faith, and the others
Another one here whose writing grabs my attention is Omnivorous.

I couldn't agree more. Omnivorous is a sage.

It makes it worth it to take some time crafting sentences knowing there are people around who are sensitive to such things.

I knew there was something we had in common!

It's true, though, you can make something trivial sound important if you express it elegantly.

Well, I wouldn't say what you wrote is trivial. I especially liked

quote:
Just following one's own inclinations isn't exactly finding a purpose is it? Or is it?

The "or is it?" gave it a nice twist. It reminds me of Stephen Fry's writing. Now don't be offended, but he's a gay, atheist (probably communist and terrorist as well) writer/actor/comedian/tv-presentor/genial personality/my favourite writer. Speaking of expressing things elegantly!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 08-04-2006 7:10 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 08-04-2006 8:39 AM Parasomnium has not yet responded

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 99 (337877)
08-04-2006 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Parasomnium
08-04-2006 2:53 AM


Re: Robin, Faith, and the others
Beautiful! (The rest of your story as well.) You are a poet, Robin.

Thanks. I do ok if I'm narrating or describing something. THINKING is another matter.

But seriously, that was a joy to read. I don't know why really.

Yeah, I keep telling Faith that she should write a "spriitual autobiography," but the idea of talking about her past doesn't appeal to her.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Parasomnium, posted 08-04-2006 2:53 AM Parasomnium has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Parasomnium, posted 08-04-2006 7:54 AM robinrohan has responded

  
Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 23 of 99 (337878)
08-04-2006 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by robinrohan
08-04-2006 7:51 AM


Re: Robin, Faith, and the others
Thanks. I do ok if I'm narrating or describing something. THINKING is another matter.

Then don't think, just write.

the idea of talking about her past doesn't appeal to her

Perhaps she just doesn't remember. She had a life BC, after all.

Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by robinrohan, posted 08-04-2006 7:51 AM robinrohan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by robinrohan, posted 08-04-2006 8:09 AM Parasomnium has responded

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 99 (337879)
08-04-2006 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by lfen
08-04-2006 4:09 AM


I'll make another futile attempt of presenting what I see as an alternative to beliefs either religious or nihilistic.

Your posts are not futile at all. I enjoy them. My problem is that it's very difficult for me to think in "non-dualistic" terms(in your sense of the word). I can't imagine there not being subjects and objects, things and beings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by lfen, posted 08-04-2006 4:09 AM lfen has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by lfen, posted 08-04-2006 1:02 PM robinrohan has responded

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 99 (337880)
08-04-2006 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by working out eating chips
08-03-2006 4:58 PM


Re: Thank you
I believe it is one of the few bright points left of this website.

I don't know how "bright" it is, but thanks.

Have you thought about the validity of existentialism? Or does it seem to you that creating a purpose for oneself is foolish.

One might call my viewpoint "existentialism." The term just doesn't appeal to me much. And anyway it means a lot of different things. There's even such a thing as "Christian" existentialism (Kierkegaard). But you're right: a simple definition of "existentialism" is that you recognize the lack of purpose, and so you make up your own, with full knowledge that this is what you are doing. In such a case, one lives "authentically." I accept that.

Creating a purpose is not foolish: it's inevitable. A very common overall life purpose is to "get safe." It's impossible to achieve, but one can obtain relative, temporary safety. This is not an exalted purpose like altruism, but it's certainly natural.

Your reasoning may understandably be "All purposes are equal, because purposes are of a subjective nature due to value" (equally meaningless) which is truth preserving but the last sentence from my excerpt of my Argument segues into another important point of my beliefs.

Yes, that is my reasoning. Viewed objectively, all purposes are equal, whether it be collecting matchboxes or finding a cure for cancer. I'm not certain what you mean by "truth preserving."

I however probably would not last as you have

No problem. Just stock up on alcoholic beverages.

Altruism is the greatest of purposes IMO it rises above any other equally meaningless purpose.

That may be, but it's a rather tall order.

Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.


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 Message 7 by working out eating chips, posted 08-03-2006 4:58 PM working out eating chips has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 53 by nator, posted 08-05-2006 6:01 PM robinrohan has responded

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 99 (337881)
08-04-2006 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Parasomnium
08-04-2006 7:54 AM


Re: Robin, Faith, and the others
Then don't think, just write.

Good idea.

Perhaps she just doesn't remember. She had a life BC, after all.

She is rather forgetful.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Parasomnium, posted 08-04-2006 7:54 AM Parasomnium has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Parasomnium, posted 08-04-2006 8:21 AM robinrohan has not yet responded

  
Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 27 of 99 (337883)
08-04-2006 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by robinrohan
08-04-2006 8:09 AM


Re: Robin, Faith, and the others
She is rather forgetful

Forgetful maybe. But also: {queue Nat King Cole} "Unforgettable..."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by robinrohan, posted 08-04-2006 8:09 AM robinrohan has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24502
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 28 of 99 (337884)
08-04-2006 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Parasomnium
08-04-2006 7:51 AM


Re: Robin, Faith, and the others
It makes it worth it to take some time crafting sentences knowing there are people around who are sensitive to such things.

I knew there was something we had in common!

I discovered you are a writer when you wrote the story about your adventures with chickens. NICELY written.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Parasomnium, posted 08-04-2006 7:51 AM Parasomnium has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 24502
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 29 of 99 (337885)
08-04-2006 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by robinrohan
08-04-2006 8:06 AM


Re: Thank you
Messenjah writes:

I however probably would not last as you have

Robin writes:

No problem. Just stock up on alcoholic beverages.

I wish I didn't laugh at remarks like this. But it is funny. Life is purposeless, so we make our own purposes and that way we're authentic, but we still need to render ourselves unconscious to tolerate it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by robinrohan, posted 08-04-2006 8:06 AM robinrohan has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 9284
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 30 of 99 (337888)
08-04-2006 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by AdminAsgara
08-02-2006 11:24 PM


72 young Virgins
Robin Of Rohan writes:

what most interested me were the pretty girls in their hats nearby. It was a beautiful experience but certainly not a religious one.

Many of the young men whom I talk with have reported to me that one of the main reasons they attend church is because of pretty women. The Lord works in mysterious ways!

Everyone is drawn to church by an unfullfilled need. When, as is often happens, the church lets us down, we occasionally give up, thinking to ourselves that we ARE still in Kansas and there is no magic kingdom.

One could also argue that existensialism and/or nihilism are merely safe places to never be anxious.

I would rather dies believing in something worth believing in than to die conclusing that this life is all there is.

For now, however, Im content to get on with living.

Alcoholic beverages are optional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AdminAsgara, posted 08-02-2006 11:24 PM AdminAsgara has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by robinrohan, posted 08-04-2006 9:47 AM Phat has responded

  
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