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Author Topic:   Belief Statement - jar
Brian
Member (Idle past 2516 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002

 Message 271 of 300 (328072) 07-01-2006 6:24 PM Reply to: Message 267 by jar07-01-2006 10:56 AM

Re: Love God, how can I do that?
 I'm not sure what your point is.

The point is, if you do X and Y is a result of X then you do not need to do Y. Thus there is only one command.

It isn't difficult Jim. If you automatically love God when you love your neighbour and do what is right then the command to love god is redundant.

All you need say is love your neighbour as you love yourself, thus no command to love God is necessary.

Are you getting the logic here, or am I not explaining the logic properly?

Once we sort out the logic 'problem' we can move on to a few other problems in logic I believe your stance throws up.

Brian.

 This message is a reply to: Message 267 by jar, posted 07-01-2006 10:56 AM jar has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 274 by jar, posted 07-01-2006 6:42 PM Brian has responded

robinrohan
Inactive Member

 Message 272 of 300 (328073) 07-01-2006 6:25 PM Reply to: Message 270 by Phat07-01-2006 6:06 PM

Re: Love God, how can I do that?
 As for my friend from across the pond, Mr. Brian.....

Phat, Brian is correct. But there's no reason why you have to call yourself a Christian. You can be something else.

If you want to be reasonable, I suggest nihilism.

Just a suggestion.

"Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction, and set up a monument, to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it."--William Law
 This message is a reply to: Message 270 by Phat, posted 07-01-2006 6:06 PM Phat has not yet responded

Brian
Member (Idle past 2516 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002

 Message 273 of 300 (328075) 07-01-2006 6:29 PM Reply to: Message 270 by Phat07-01-2006 6:06 PM

Re: Love God, how can I do that?
 However....what I would like to see is a column from Brian on his beliefs and why he has developed them.

Take too long to type up, and it would be too boring to read.

Brian.

 This message is a reply to: Message 270 by Phat, posted 07-01-2006 6:06 PM Phat has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 29433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3

 Message 274 of 300 (328080) 07-01-2006 6:42 PM Reply to: Message 271 by Brian07-01-2006 6:24 PM

Re: Love God, how can I do that?
Well, since I disagree with your analysis, I don't really see any point to continuing. I see the Primary commandment as Love GOD. The others are explanations of how one does that.

It isn't hard to understand Brian, Love GOD, love others as you love yourself.

It really is as simple as that.

If you wish to believe that you are not saved, then that is fine. However, I believe that after you die you will be judged, not on some profession of belief, but rather on the life you lived.

This is a belief statement Brian, what I believe. It is not a sermon, not an Epistle, not a gospel, just a statement of what I believe.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion
 This message is a reply to: Message 271 by Brian, posted 07-01-2006 6:24 PM Brian has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 279 by AdminPhat, posted 07-02-2006 2:23 AM jar has not yet responded Message 286 by Brian, posted 07-02-2006 5:23 PM jar has not yet responded

deerbreh
Member (Idle past 449 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005

 Message 275 of 300 (328137) 07-01-2006 9:09 PM Reply to: Message 186 by iano06-28-2006 12:35 PM

Re: Valid christian teaching?
 So following is not central to salvation?

Following is what we are commanded to do. We forget sometimes and stray. That is where grace comes in.

 This message is a reply to: Message 186 by iano, posted 06-28-2006 12:35 PM iano has not yet responded

deerbreh
Member (Idle past 449 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005

 Message 276 of 300 (328140) 07-01-2006 9:16 PM Reply to: Message 187 by Faith06-28-2006 12:41 PM

Re: Valid christian teaching?
deer writes:

Et tu Brute?

 Faith writes:???

From "Julius Caeser" (Shakespeare) Often quoted, the meaning should be clear.

 This message is a reply to: Message 187 by Faith, posted 06-28-2006 12:41 PM Faith has not yet responded

deerbreh
Member (Idle past 449 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005

 Message 277 of 300 (328146) 07-01-2006 9:30 PM Reply to: Message 198 by Brian06-29-2006 3:36 AM

Re: Valid christian teaching?
 So, sure being nice ot each other is important, but it is not the only requirement.

Huh, isn't that pretty much what I said? I said, No, {being nice was not the only requirement}, but then went on to say {in the "but" part) that it is important, based on Matther 25. You chose to ignore the "NO" that started the sentence. Please pay attention.

My exact quote:

 No but it sure sounds like being nice to others is important.

 This message is a reply to: Message 198 by Brian, posted 06-29-2006 3:36 AM Brian has not yet responded

deerbreh
Member (Idle past 449 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005

 Message 278 of 300 (328151) 07-01-2006 9:43 PM Reply to: Message 200 by Brian06-29-2006 6:03 AM

Re: Valid christian teaching?
 Try reading the Bible as a whole, the Old and New testaments, and then have a rethink about the claptrap you are hoping is true.

More arrogance. But of course everyone thinks they do that already. The fact that what I think it says does not agree with what you think it says does not mean that you are reading as a whole and I am not. It means we have different criteria for interpretation. I don't see the Bible as a set of propositional truths. I see it as a series of stories that reveal truth. There is a difference. It is a different philosophy of interpretation. It happens.

 This message is a reply to: Message 200 by Brian, posted 06-29-2006 6:03 AM Brian has not yet responded

Posts: 1815
Joined: 12-03-2004

 Message 279 of 300 (328183) 07-02-2006 2:23 AM Reply to: Message 274 by jar07-01-2006 6:42 PM

Re: Love God, how can I do that?
I think that witching hour would be an act of kindness before your belief thread gets butchered any more! :)

No need Phat. Let folk say what they want.

 This message is a reply to: Message 274 by jar, posted 07-01-2006 6:42 PM jar has not yet responded

Buzsaw
Inactive Member

 Message 280 of 300 (328235) 07-02-2006 9:40 AM

Re: Jar On Salvation
Loving God and Neighbor is important. However what I've never understood about Jar on salvation is how he can claim Christianity's salvation all the while rejecting the emphatic words of Jesus himself, the Christ of Christianity and his desciples regarding the need of Christ in salvation. For example, I assume that by most of what I've read on Jar on salvation that he rejects most of the NT scriptures noted here:

www.jesussite.com/plan.htm

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW
 Replies to this message: Message 281 by jar, posted 07-02-2006 9:55 AM Buzsaw has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 29433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3

 Message 281 of 300 (328240) 07-02-2006 9:55 AM Reply to: Message 280 by Buzsaw07-02-2006 9:40 AM

Re: Jar On Salvation
Most of those are but cherrypicking buz, quote mining and taken out of context. Let me try yet again to explain my belief.

I read those in context, and within the context of the rest of the Bible. IMHO the Bible, reason, logic and my whole idea of GOD says that there is no need to believe in, know, acknowledge or even believe in GOD to be saved.

GOD will judge us on what we do in life.

AbE:

Buz, that really is a big difference in our respective points of view but we have little time remaining. If you would like to discuss it in greater deatail, maybe a thread just on that would be a good idea.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion
 This message is a reply to: Message 280 by Buzsaw, posted 07-02-2006 9:40 AM Buzsaw has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 282 by Buzsaw, posted 07-02-2006 11:58 AM jar has responded Message 285 by GDR, posted 07-02-2006 5:01 PM jar has responded

Buzsaw
Inactive Member

 Message 282 of 300 (328264) 07-02-2006 11:58 AM Reply to: Message 281 by jar07-02-2006 9:55 AM

Re: Jar On Salvation
1. But your problem is that the context of which these verses come from all support them as stated for what they appear to say.

2. I don't think a thread is warranted. I know your usual responses but they never answer this problem of what to do with the words and clear teachings of Jesus and his apostles on the doctrine of salvation. So far as I have observed you simply sweep them under the proverbial rug or pass them off as metaphoric myth. I'm not sure that this treatment of the words of the Christ himself of Christianity and his apostles will suffice for anyone in the judgment. As in the OT, some sacrificial atonement was required for the atonement of the sins of mankind (i.e. salvation) and an aknowledgement and applications of that atonement required by the people who desired it.

3. The clear doctinal teaching of the role of works in the NT is that the works are the product of the new life in Christ via the Holy Spirit which is the spirit of Jesus Christ when we receive him as lord and savior of our lives. For example, "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature. Old things are past away and see, all things are become new." I Corinthians 5:17 Our love of God and how we treat others is all enhanced by this salvation experience of receiving the spirit of Christ into our being.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW
 This message is a reply to: Message 281 by jar, posted 07-02-2006 9:55 AM jar has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 283 by jar, posted 07-02-2006 12:11 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded Message 284 by ringo, posted 07-02-2006 12:39 PM Buzsaw has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 29433
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3

 Message 283 of 300 (328269) 07-02-2006 12:11 PM Reply to: Message 282 by Buzsaw07-02-2006 11:58 AM

Re: Jar On Salvation
Okay, so you don't want to discuss it. That's fine with me as well.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion
 This message is a reply to: Message 282 by Buzsaw, posted 07-02-2006 11:58 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 13718
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7

 Message 284 of 300 (328273) 07-02-2006 12:39 PM Reply to: Message 282 by Buzsaw07-02-2006 11:58 AM

Re: Jar On Salvation
 Buzsaw writes:I'm not sure that this treatment of the words of the Christ himself of Christianity and his apostles will suffice for anyone in the judgment.

Then it would behove somebody on the "fundamentalist" side to discuss those words.

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 This message is a reply to: Message 282 by Buzsaw, posted 07-02-2006 11:58 AM Buzsaw has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 295 by Buzsaw, posted 07-02-2006 9:55 PM ringo has responded

GDR
Member
Posts: 4303
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.5

 Message 285 of 300 (328319) 07-02-2006 5:01 PM Reply to: Message 281 by jar07-02-2006 9:55 AM

Re: Jar On Salvation
 jar writes:GOD will judge us on what we do in life.

I still kinda wondering if we agree or not, or if I'm just nit-picking.

If I take the above quote literally then it means that if I spend 10 hours a week doing volunteer work for others and donate 15% of my income to charity I'm more likely to wind up with salvation than someone who spends 5 hours a week and donates 8%. What is the cut-off? (3.7 hours and 6.27% maybe) :)

I think that we can also safely assume that some people perform good works because they like being told what wonderful people they are, while others serve anonymously. Are their deeds judged equally? I would just contend that we are judged on the condition of our heart, and not our deeds or our understanding of doctrine.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion. :)
 This message is a reply to: Message 281 by jar, posted 07-02-2006 9:55 AM jar has responded

 Replies to this message: Message 287 by jar, posted 07-02-2006 5:30 PM GDR has not yet responded Message 288 by Brian, posted 07-02-2006 5:31 PM GDR has responded

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